Law School Discussion

Are you non-native?

Are you non-native?
« on: August 31, 2004, 04:54:34 PM »
The fact that English is not my first language has been creating extra hardship for me to imporve my score.  I am just curious how other non-natives are doing with LSAT (if there is any out there). 

Still, I have worked hard and improved my points by 11 since April.  But I need another 7-8 points in order to get in to top 50 schools.  I don't know if schools will even consider in anyway the fact that English is not my first language.  LSAT is already one hard test.  No matter how much I study, I feel I will never get 170 or even 165+ because of the fact above.  I would like to know if any non-native has socred that high points.  Well, I don't consider a person who came to US before 18 years old as a non-native person I am talking about here. 

Re: Are you non-native?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2004, 11:17:50 AM »
Can't really answer your question fully as I am not scoring higher than 165. However, being a non-native myself, I do know that you need to provide your TOEFL scores if your undergrad was in another country with English as second lang. I spoke to a few law schools and do not feel they'll consider english as  second lang to level your scores.

Re: Are you non-native?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2004, 04:48:47 PM »
Are you an international applicant?  I went UC Berkeley for my undergrad and know that I am not required to take Toefl.  I recently talked to admission people from Boalt and Columbia law, they both told me they would consider the fact that English was not my native language and encouraged me to mention that in my addendum.  I don't think they will level out my LSAT score considering the factor, but they seem to, at least, acknowkedge the fact that the language barrier intereferes with what LSAT tries to reflect. 

My problem with LSAT is speed.  I am always 10-15 min. short to complete all the questions except LG.  I have improved my speed reading working with eyeQ for past 12 weeks, but it is still not good enough.  I see the limitation as being non-native and simply wanted to know if this was something I could overcome or something really impossible to attain.  I thought it would be nice to know someone, if there is any, who is in my situation kickin' butt with LSAT. 

Re: Are you non-native?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2004, 05:35:55 PM »
No one??????  :o

Re: Are you non-native?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2004, 03:18:18 PM »
Rachel:
Again, I am perhaps not the right person to answer you. I came to this country much later in life and although it's possible there's a fraction of a sec delay in converting every sentence in English to my native language (I am pretty sure I still don't dream in English), i doubt if that's the reason for my slowing down. Rc is actually my strenght and I can read and comprehend real fast. fast enough to be able to complete before time. On the other hand, I still hace 4-5 Q's unanswered in LR and can finish only 3 LGs. Do mention in the addeddum , if it doesn't hurt. As everyone else says, practice increases speed and I am sure it'll work for you too.

Re: Are you non-native?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2004, 01:40:15 PM »
Thank you for the input. 

It sounds like you don't have that much of a language barrier considering you can read and comprehend fast enough as natives do.  Did you come here when you are  still in HS or before that?  If not, I think your skill is exceptional.  I don't know how you can do that. 

But how about my original question...?  Is there any non native who imporved scores to high 160's?  i guess the answere is still NO then....

Re: Are you non-native?
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2004, 04:05:06 PM »
rachel:
As i mentioned, I came much later, after HS. I do have a friend who is a non-native as well, came here at 25 or so, to get an advanced degree and got into Stanford law and later became an order of coif (high achievers at some law schools get it, like a distinction). Since he could get into stanford law, I would assume that he had a high LSAT score. Everything is possible, just keep trying and use it to your advantage.:)

Re: Are you non-native?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2004, 12:37:12 PM »
Hi there:

I was exactly in your shoes.  I came to the US 5 years ago for a master's degree - got my bachelors overseas.

I was making very bad scores and then thought English barrier was coming in between my scores. I can kick butt if LSAT had 2 games sections, I usually finish 5 minutes before in the Games with 95% accuracy.

I was getting screwed in RC, but then there are ways to get over it.  Any one - even a native speaker will finish reading the passage in say 3 minutes - may be you will take a minute extra event with 4 min - you can get towards the end of section in 35 minutes.

I really thought the same way, but then it's all mental game.  I persistently took one RC after another LIKE 5-6 sometime in a row - killed myself.  Finally made it, you gotta know the TEST MAKERS MIND. Once you know it - you can even cross the native english scores easily - even the top ones.

But again, some schools like BYU - which is in the top 40 says that if your scores are below 145 because of english problem, talk to us and include your TOEFL scores and they will consider you.  It's very encouraging!

BRIGHAM YOUNG IN UTAH -- I dont' have the link but can send you later on.

I fully empathize with you, but hey you can kick butt - dont let that *&^% come in between you. ITS ALL MENTAL
BE TOUGH LIKE A PROFESSIONAL BOXER OR A PROFESSIONAL RACQUET BALL PLAYER LIKE ME!!

ALWAYS
INFRINGER
QUOTE:  Got some ideas, Let me protect before you share
                                         -- infringer(future patent attorney)

Re: Are you non-native?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2004, 10:54:00 PM »
rachel, i can assure you there are many non-native JDs and JD-wannabes who came to this country after college.  i am one of the them and i know a whole bunch of them.  a college friend of mine got into yale law straight from my home country.  i know people from similar backgrounds as mine who graduated from hls, columna, and upenn.

a >165 lsat score is definitely achievable by non-native speakers.  imo, it would have been much harder if lsat tested english debating skills.  but fortunately, it doesn't. :-)  i consistently score >165 during my practice tests.  just took oct 04 test and awaiting my score anxiously.  keeping my fingers crossed. :-)

Lost in Translation

  • ****
  • 163
  • Choosing the right law school: priceless!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Are you non-native?
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2004, 09:36:44 AM »
I am non-native, and I came to the USA for college. I scored 170 on the LSAT. Being non-native does not necessarily prevent you from scoring well. What you need to do is work your assss off doing practicing exams and going through LSAT manual books. I believe that being non-native is a factor (it gives you something close to a minority status), but it cannot be used as an excuse for a low LSAT score. The rationale is that if your language skills stop u from performing well on the LSAT, they will prevent you from doing well at law school as well.

What I am wondering about is if international students only compete agaainst other international students when applying for a JD program or whether they compete with the entire pool of applicants.



The fact that English is not my first language has been creating extra hardship for me to imporve my score.  I am just curious how other non-natives are doing with LSAT (if there is any out there). 

Still, I have worked hard and improved my points by 11 since April.  But I need another 7-8 points in order to get in to top 50 schools.  I don't know if schools will even consider in anyway the fact that English is not my first language.  LSAT is already one hard test.  No matter how much I study, I feel I will never get 170 or even 165+ because of the fact above.  I would like to know if any non-native has socred that high points.  Well, I don't consider a person who came to US before 18 years old as a non-native person I am talking about here.