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Poll

Why did Sarah Palin resign?

Personal scandal
 5 (17.2%)
Probable indictment
 7 (24.1%)
Just plain craziness
 3 (10.3%)
Looooong lead up to 2012
 4 (13.8%)
Something else
 2 (6.9%)
Some combination of the above
 8 (27.6%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Author Topic: The Thread on Politics  (Read 420711 times)

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #8040 on: July 20, 2009, 10:31:50 AM »
David Boies: Gay Marriage and the Constitution

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124804515860263587.html


Interesting arguments there.  The Court has consistently placed the right to marriage in that "fundamental rights" category so all the precedent is there.  Although I wouldn't bring that claim in this particular Supreme Court.  Might wanna wait a few years until somebody drops off.
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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #8041 on: July 21, 2009, 11:11:24 PM »
Have you guys seen the video clip of Glenn Beck spazzing out live during his radio show? I swear that guy needs to be at a mental institution lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-KGukuety0
Feeling like Detriot Red cleaned up!!

Miss P

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #8042 on: July 22, 2009, 03:14:57 PM »
Alci, please, please, if you do nothing else in your life, get yourself on a talk show.  I would love to listen to (or watch!) Alcibiades' America or whatever you'd call it. 

The Olson/Boies suit is interesting.  I don't know if you saw the hubbub when it came out.  Gay rights organizations are very upset that they chose to press this claim in the federal courts, under the federal constitution when they will definitely lose in the Supreme Court.  I don't know if mainstream civil rights organizations have long been too risk averse (since Jack Greenberg's tenure at the Legal Defense Fund, at least) -- maybe it's not that big a deal to lose big on occasion?  In any case, I remain a bit suspicious of their motives and lack of connection to the communities they represent.  I also don't understand why they included some claims but not others, but obviously the suit isn't well-developed yet (it's just at the complaint stage), and I surely can't question Olson's or Boies' legal know-how.



That's cool how you referenced a case.

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Julie Fern

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #8043 on: July 22, 2009, 04:54:53 PM »
News on the Palin front:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090721/ap_on_re_us/us_palin_ethics_complaint

I'm still expecting something else to surface.

jimmy hoffa?

Miss P

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #8044 on: July 22, 2009, 04:58:47 PM »
News on the Palin front:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090721/ap_on_re_us/us_palin_ethics_complaint

I'm still expecting something else to surface.

jimmy hoffa?

I really do think there's more.  This is pretty small beans.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

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I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.

Miss P

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #8045 on: July 22, 2009, 09:10:29 PM »
I agree, but do you think Boies might be a closeted homophobe?

No, but I think Olson might be an out-and-out homophobe.  And I bet they both think highly enough of themselves (for good reason) that they might be blind to the limits of their powers of persuasion in the Supreme Court.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

Quote from: archival
I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.

goaliechica

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #8046 on: July 23, 2009, 02:22:47 AM »
I agree, but do you think Boies might be a closeted homophobe?

No, but I think Olson might be an out-and-out homophobe.  And I bet they both think highly enough of themselves (for good reason) that they might be blind to the limits of their powers of persuasion in the Supreme Court.

I am kind of intrigued by all of this. I certainly understand the uproar and the complaints, but do you really this Olson is intentionally sabotaging the cause? He just strikes me as pretty sincere about it, if pompous and misguided. I don't feel sufficiently steeped in the history of civil rights litigation to put the argument about this litigation in context, but, I don't know, I can't help but think it's not ALL bad. These are powerful people. I think that this suit, win or lose, will certainly be another step in the cultural movement forward. And, yeah, maybe it's okay to lose! And maybe this is the right kind of publicity. I don't know. I guess I would like to see a formal analysis of what kind of existing rights and good things could be lost with an unfavorable ruling on this.
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Miss P

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #8047 on: July 23, 2009, 02:33:46 AM »
I agree, but do you think Boies might be a closeted homophobe?

No, but I think Olson might be an out-and-out homophobe.  And I bet they both think highly enough of themselves (for good reason) that they might be blind to the limits of their powers of persuasion in the Supreme Court.

I am kind of intrigued by all of this. I certainly understand the uproar and the complaints, but do you really this Olson is intentionally sabotaging the cause? He just strikes me as pretty sincere about it, if pompous and misguided. I don't feel sufficiently steeped in the history of civil rights litigation to put the argument about this litigation in context, but, I don't know, I can't help but think it's not ALL bad. These are powerful people. I think that this suit, win or lose, will certainly be another step in the cultural movement forward. And, yeah, maybe it's okay to lose! And maybe this is the right kind of publicity. I don't know. I guess I would like to see a formal analysis of what kind of existing rights and good things could be lost with an unfavorable ruling on this.

I agree.  I'm not sure what the real risks are; I was just talking about the conventional wisdom in mainstream civil rights organizations about how legal change works. And I doubt Olson is intentionally sabotaging gay marriage BUT a lot of people think he is, and I don't think this is a very promising start for him as an ally/leader in the gay rights movement.  I don't know.  It's all very strange.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

Quote from: archival
I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.

goaliechica

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #8048 on: July 23, 2009, 02:40:39 AM »
I agree, but do you think Boies might be a closeted homophobe?

No, but I think Olson might be an out-and-out homophobe.  And I bet they both think highly enough of themselves (for good reason) that they might be blind to the limits of their powers of persuasion in the Supreme Court.

I am kind of intrigued by all of this. I certainly understand the uproar and the complaints, but do you really this Olson is intentionally sabotaging the cause? He just strikes me as pretty sincere about it, if pompous and misguided. I don't feel sufficiently steeped in the history of civil rights litigation to put the argument about this litigation in context, but, I don't know, I can't help but think it's not ALL bad. These are powerful people. I think that this suit, win or lose, will certainly be another step in the cultural movement forward. And, yeah, maybe it's okay to lose! And maybe this is the right kind of publicity. I don't know. I guess I would like to see a formal analysis of what kind of existing rights and good things could be lost with an unfavorable ruling on this.

I agree.  I'm not sure what the real risks are; I was just talking about the conventional wisdom in mainstream civil rights organizations about how legal change works. And I doubt Olson is intentionally sabotaging gay marriage BUT a lot of people think he is, and I don't think this is a very promising start for him as an ally/leader in the gay rights movement.  I don't know.  It's all very strange.

Yes! This.

I guess I can't help but suspect that, while there are very legitimate concerns about the potential results of this, there is also a healthy dose of turf war going on. I think there is this sense that the mainstream LGBT groups have done the heavy lifting to get us as far as we have, and that they feel possessive about guiding the movement, especially when some pompous old (and one SUPER-conservative) dudes try to take the reins. Which, you know, fair enough. More than. But I think it may color the analysis of how much this is a bad thing in practical terms. For better or worse, I do think there is some potent publicity symbolism in people like Olson or Cheney (sort of) signing on that can help counter-balance public sentiments about "legislating from the bench" on these issues. I don't know! Clearly interesting stuff.
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goaliechica

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #8049 on: July 23, 2009, 02:41:46 AM »
Alci, please, please, if you do nothing else in your life, get yourself on a talk show.  I would love to listen to (or watch!) Alcibiades' America or whatever you'd call it. 


Lol that has a nice ring to it!  Alcibiades' America.  And you know how much I love stirring the pot ;).


I would fully tune in for this. Maybe even call in!
Quote from: Earthbound SNES
Get a sense of humor, Susan B. Anthony!
Quote from: dashrashi
I'm going to cut a female dog. With a knife with a brown handle, natch.
Quote from: Elephant Lee
Don't judge me. You've not had my life.