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Poll

Why did Sarah Palin resign?

Personal scandal
 5 (17.2%)
Probable indictment
 7 (24.1%)
Just plain craziness
 3 (10.3%)
Looooong lead up to 2012
 4 (13.8%)
Something else
 2 (6.9%)
Some combination of the above
 8 (27.6%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Author Topic: The Thread on Politics  (Read 409174 times)

! B L U E WAR R I O R..!

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5700 on: September 04, 2008, 12:42:40 AM »
julie u have to know by now..that after all these yrs.. blue doesn't give a damn what u or anyone else thinks about him.. and u can't fault him for that @ all.. he's been consistent since day 1.. (or at least since i've been around.. i can't speak for what's gone on prior to my being on the board)

aye know that the above is not a compliment but you are 100 percent correct...and you are intuitive with your remarks...

thankyou...

you astute american.

ps. aye try to keep my namecalling only for archie bunker types...too.

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! B L U E WAR R I O R..!

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5701 on: September 04, 2008, 12:44:32 AM »
No you didn't.

I said this from the beginning. 

And don't get so high on yourself.  She gave a good speech mostly preaching to the converted.  Considering no one's really done a bad job, and I doubt McCain will do anything amazing or awful tomorrow, big woo. 


maybe not you...sorry...but those who mentioned the experience twist...it is the top of the ticket that truly has to have experience...aye said it was not wise to keep drawing attention to it...and look what happened...

look what WILL happen.
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  if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison  
  us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not  
  revenge? m.of v. w.shaka                                             speare

blk_reign

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5702 on: September 04, 2008, 01:28:58 AM »
blue i was just being honest.. u know i don't have any issues with u



aye know that the above is not a compliment but you are 100 percent correct...and you are intuitive with your remarks...

thankyou...

you astute american.

ps. aye try to keep my namecalling only for archie bunker types...too.


We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

Miss P

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5703 on: September 04, 2008, 01:54:47 AM »
Unfortunately, we're going to get whatever they deserve, too.  :-\

Good point.


Speak it.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

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! B L U E WAR R I O R..!

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5704 on: September 04, 2008, 08:25:12 AM »
blue i was just being honest.. u know i don't have any issues with u



aye know that the above is not a compliment but you are 100 percent correct...and you are intuitive with your remarks...

thankyou...

you astute american.

ps. aye try to keep my namecalling only for archie bunker types...too.



aye know you don't...you are on point...aye don't care what folks think about me...no matter what they write here.

If you prick us, do we not bleed?  
  if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison  
  us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not  
  revenge? m.of v. w.shaka                                             speare

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5705 on: September 04, 2008, 11:20:08 AM »
I was waiting until last night before I made up my mind about Palin.  I'm still reserving my verdict until after the debates although I'm about 90% sure I've effectively seen what she has to offer at this point.

My Recap of the Palin speech:


Introduce herself to the Republican party and to America - 5-10 min
Appeal to special needs families - 2 min
Address attacks against her - 5 min
Trash Obama - 15 min
Trash Media - 5 min
Big Up McCain - 15 min


She did an excellent job energizing the Right wing base in a way that McCain has not been able to do on the campaign trail for the past 18 months.  They are as hype for her as Dems and Independents (and even some Republicans) were for Obama when he first came out.  Her speech was all the stuff the Right loves - sling mud at the other guy, shore up your supporters, remind them why they believe in you, etc.

However, there's a very important flip side to this coin:

Address the #1 issue to voters in the 2008 election (aka the Economy) - 0 min
Address abortion rights for women - 0 min
Address her own foreign policy experience/plans - 0 min
Address her own domestic policy experience/plans - 0 min
Address same-sex marriage - 0 min
Pander to swing voters - 0 min


So while I'm sure it fired up the Right, it left the Indi's and the left saying, ok that's great that you can put up a good show, but you talked for 45 minutes straight and didn't say anything substantive.  Ironically, this is often the same criticism that the Right has leveled against Obama from the beginning.  It's almost as if they're trying to create their own mini-Obama.  Only problem is, this lady is no Obama.  Obama inspired millions on both sides of the aisle and down the middle.  Last night's speech from Palin was aimed at nobody other than the Right.  Period. Personally I laughed at a lot of the attacks b/c I thought they were witty (even though some were flat out untrue), but at some points during the attack there was a condescending tone that really turned me off.  There was definitely a very overt "Us vs. Them" attitude that came out that was basically disrespectful not only Obama but to anybody who didn't agree with what she was saying.  Not exactly a good first impression move.

For right now, none of that matters because this is still the courting period and (many?) Americans are in love with the idea of a female VP, however, once you take away the smoke and mirrors and get down to the issues that's when those same Americans will be like "hey...wait a minute...I'm sorry but this whole time I thought you were somebody else."  I submit that if this wake up call due to the substantive issues hasn't happened before the debates, it will certainly happen at the debates.

The Dems have their work cut out for them.  They've gotta bring it if they want to win this one.


EDIT:  They need Hillary to speak out directly against Palin to quell the noise.
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Eugene Young

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5706 on: September 04, 2008, 11:28:53 AM »
God bless America.

You gotta love a country where a poli sci/journalism major from the Univ. of Idaho was mayor of a "city" that would be equal to about five large subdivisions and governor for a year and a half of a state with about as many moose as people would be deemed to have more experience than a Columbia and Harvard-educated lawyer who was a civil rights attorney, law professor, state senator and US Senator.

We embrace mediocrity. Only in America.


Eugene Young

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5707 on: September 04, 2008, 12:02:37 PM »
I was waiting until last night before I made up my mind about Palin.  I'm still reserving my verdict until after the debates although I'm about 90% sure I've effectively seen what she has to offer at this point.

My Recap of the Palin speech:


Introduce herself to the Republican party and to America - 5-10 min
Appeal to special needs families - 2 min
Address attacks against her - 5 min
Trash Obama - 15 min
Trash Media - 5 min
Big Up McCain - 15 min


She did an excellent job energizing the Right wing base in a way that McCain has not been able to do on the campaign trail for the past 18 months.  They are as hype for her as Dems and Independents (and even some Republicans) were for Obama when he first came out.  Her speech was all the stuff the Right loves - sling mud at the other guy, shore up your supporters, remind them why they believe in you, etc.

However, there's a very important flip side to this coin:

Address the #1 issue to voters in the 2008 election (aka the Economy) - 0 min
Address abortion rights for women - 0 min
Address her own foreign policy experience/plans - 0 min
Address her own domestic policy experience/plans - 0 min
Address same-sex marriage - 0 min
Pander to swing voters - 0 min


So while I'm sure it fired up the Right, it left the Indi's and the left saying, ok that's great that you can put up a good show, but you talked for 45 minutes straight and didn't say anything substantive.  Ironically, this is often the same criticism that the Right has leveled against Obama from the beginning.  It's almost as if they're trying to create their own mini-Obama.  Only problem is, this lady is no Obama.  Obama inspired millions on both sides of the aisle and down the middle.  Last night's speech from Palin was aimed at nobody other than the Right.  Period. Personally I laughed at a lot of the attacks b/c I thought they were witty (even though some were flat out untrue), but at some points during the attack there was a condescending tone that really turned me off.  There was definitely a very overt "Us vs. Them" attitude that came out that was basically disrespectful not only Obama but to anybody who didn't agree with what she was saying.  Not exactly a good first impression move.

For right now, none of that matters because this is still the courting period and (many?) Americans are in love with the idea of a female VP, however, once you take away the smoke and mirrors and get down to the issues that's when those same Americans will be like "hey...wait a minute...I'm sorry but this whole time I thought you were somebody else."  I submit that if this wake up call due to the substantive issues hasn't happened before the debates, it will certainly happen at the debates.

The Dems have their work cut out for them.  They've gotta bring it if they want to win this one.


EDIT:  They need Hillary to speak out directly against Palin to quell the noise.


Yep. But will she? She gave a great speech last week, but she has to follow up. With the Clintons, it comes down to if its in their best interests to do something. In this case, it should work out, because Hilary wants to be the first woman in the White House. Hopefully that will be enough to get her out there.

The Dems gotta bring their A game. Part of me says to make the election about Roe v. Wade. Only problem is that 51% of the country is anti-abortion and absurdly religious. The safest route is to focus on the economy, foreclosures, the war...you know...REAL issues. Hopefully people won't fall for the Republican banana in the tailpipe smokescreens this time.

Kirk Lazarus

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5708 on: September 04, 2008, 12:19:40 PM »
God bless America.

You gotta love a country where a poli sci/journalism major from the Univ. of Idaho was mayor of a "city" that would be equal to about five large subdivisions and governor for a year and a half of a state with about as many moose as people would be deemed to have more experience than a Columbia and Harvard-educated lawyer who was a civil rights attorney, law professor, state senator and US Senator.

We embrace mediocrity. Only in America.



Give me a break.


First of all, I thought Palin had an absolute right to critique Obama's experience. In 2004, Obama was a state Senator. He's been a U.S. Senator for 2 years and the other two years of his term, he has been running for President full time. In every sense of the word, Obama's experience is comparable to Sarah Palin's. For some Obama's supporters to continually ignore this or pretend it isn't true only adds to the perception that Obama is more like a religious celebrity than a Presidential candidate.

Second, piroutte was disappointed because Palin basically dismissed Obama's career. I remember the first press release Obama's campaign put out about Sarah Palin when McCain picked her. It made fun of her being a small town mayor and basically dismissed her whole career - and this was before she uttered one word about Obama. Obama's initial attack of Palin was not only unpersuasive, it was beneath him. Considering his record is comparable, I wonder what his campaign is thinking with all these Palin is a heartbeat away from the presidency attacks.

Third, the media coverage of Palin has been absolutely horrendous and at times, sexist. I've heard commentators suggest that she should stay at home with her kids instead of be vice-president? O'Rlly?  I've NEVER heard that said about a man. Ever. Then they attack her because she has views that abstinence is the correct policy goal and point to her daughter as part of that failed policy. I mean, in what world is that even a persuasive argument? I'm all for sex education, but pointing to a pregnant teenage daughter as evidence that abstinence is not a workable policy option is just silly.

What's even worse is some Obama supporters who can't articulate a valid criticism for Palin and instead resort to attacking the population of her state and/or town she was mayor of. Let me tell you, being a mayor of a small town is infinitely more complex that being a state senator. Any one who denies this is either intellectually dishonest or ignorant of the complexities of municipal organizations. Moreover, Alaska is a ultra complex state to run despite its population. In fact, I don't understand why population is such a big concern at all. And no matter how you cut it, going to Harvard Law doesn't qualify you for National Office over some other college educated person with a similar record...unless of course, you're an elitist.

Sands: I thought Sarah Palin's speech was substantive enough. I simply thought she focused on the issues that she knew about. I also remember her talking about foreign policy. It wasn't heavy on policy, but this was her coming out speech. It was her chance to introduce herself to the world. The key is, she's going to be VP. The substantive stuff should be left to McCain. If I remember correctly, Biden played attack dog too and though his style was different, his attacks were no less brutal. She came off to me as down to earth, witty and normal. I think she did very well last night. She probably didn't help bring in lots of independents, but Palin's speech was designed to energize a base that hasn't been totally enthusiastic about McCain. Once the base is energized, McCain can get the fundraising he needs to go after those swing states and more importantly, get the turnout he needs to compete with Barack Obama. McCain and Obama are dead even at the last poll and McCain plays very well to independents. I don't think Palin's speech HURT McCain with independents and he'll go after them tonight.

That being said, I can't stand Sarah Palin's policy positions. The are extreme and I certainly don't want her being President if something happens to McCain. The sort of nominees she would appoint to federal courts and possibly the Supreme Court would be a disaster. I think Democrats should drop the experience line of attack and start going after her  ideas. While she comes off as average and normal, I certainly don't think she represents what average Americans think. I also think that it is insulting to women everywhere to think that women vote on the basis of gender rather than issues. Sarah Palin is at odds with all the issues women care most about and she certainly isn't a Hillary Clinton. Gender only becomes influential if all else is equal. Republicans can't put Alan Keyes on the ticket and expect an increase in Black support. To date, Palin hasn't attracted many female voters, but she gets very high marks among male voters. Go figure.
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Saxby Clemens II

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5709 on: September 04, 2008, 01:15:02 PM »
I agree with absolutely everything Galt said.

I'd like to add that I find it interesting/confusing/disappointing when people ask for Hillary's help and slam her in the same breath.  Obama was a child when Bill and Hillary Clinton were launching careers that over the span of 40 years would improve the lives of children, women, the working class and minorities across the country.  It's forgotten now, of course, but Obama wasn't the only candidate to push aside corporate law after graduation to fight for ordinary people.  Hillary did it first.

I don't mean to take issue with anyone in particular or to be antagonistic.  I just think it's unfortunate how many Democrats and liberals are/were so quick to adapt the ridiculous, damaging language the Ridiculous Right has used for decades in their never-ending fight against the Clintons and the type of reforms and progress they've never stopped trying to achieve in the name of a party that hasn't shown them an enormous amount of loyalty in return.     
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