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Why did Sarah Palin resign?

Personal scandal
 5 (17.2%)
Probable indictment
 7 (24.1%)
Just plain craziness
 3 (10.3%)
Looooong lead up to 2012
 4 (13.8%)
Something else
 2 (6.9%)
Some combination of the above
 8 (27.6%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Author Topic: The Thread on Politics  (Read 416566 times)

blk_reign

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5670 on: September 03, 2008, 03:20:05 PM »
this post made it worth me signing in today...thanks for that G-money (still catching up)

No.  She.  Didn't.

Feminist issues remain the exact same.  The approach has always been subject to debate since the inception of the movement.  Stop watching Fox and read a book or fifty about feminism before asserting that Clinton confused the issues.  I don't give a rat's @ss about the "female" vote in '04 - not all women are feminists, not all feminists are women.  I very, very, very infrequently bother to reply to your posts, but I'm simply not willing to let such a gross fallacy stand as political commentary.
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5671 on: September 03, 2008, 03:38:16 PM »
this post made it worth me signing in today...thanks for that G-money (still catching up)

No.  She.  Didn't.

Feminist issues remain the exact same.  The approach has always been subject to debate since the inception of the movement.  Stop watching Fox and read a book or fifty about feminism before asserting that Clinton confused the issues.  I don't give a rat's @ss about the "female" vote in '04 - not all women are feminists, not all feminists are women.  I very, very, very infrequently bother to reply to your posts, but I'm simply not willing to let such a gross fallacy stand as political commentary.

you haven't missed much...nonsense, speculation, hear-say, a party, one beautiful speech, a new female nominiee taking the baton, feminist shock,  democrat "hair trigger" responses, a hurricane, a postponed party
and smear-tactics
.


as vice president sarah palin will be a role-model... as governor and mother of five ..in those two vocations alone...she already embodies and personifies feminist ideals...women's legal rights:  rights of contract...property rights...voting rights....for protection from domestic violence... sexual harassment and rape...workplace rights {including maternity leave and equal pay....and against other forms of discrimination.}and a cracking through a few allowances that were once part of a "boys only club"...like "hunting".

as vice president she will be the personification of a great change...pushing the envelope of rights feminists hold dear and equalities feminists fight for...maybe not all of them...but many...

one cannot say that susan b. anthony would not be proud.

radical feminists do not have to call her a feminist...but she is already an efficacious embodiment of feminism...and as v.p. she is a contender for the second highest political office in the land...and wihout even knowing her the smear tactics slobbering from the cantankerous radical left wing democrat party are shameful and should make all democrats a little saddened.


watch "the contender"... with joan allen...see if art is not reflecting life...

see who wins in the end... ;)


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  us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not  
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blk_reign

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5672 on: September 03, 2008, 04:09:51 PM »
ok i'm not even going to pretend that i read all of that.. but i'll say this.. i think that Palin was a horrible choice for obvious reasons.. speaking on her judgment alone I cannot understand how any woman deems it "right" to force {this was a hypothetical she was presented} their young raped child to carry their unborn fetus to term.. that goes beyond my scope of understanding.. any female should have a choice in that matter.. esp a child/teenager..

secondly there are plenty of female republicans that McCain could have chosen that were far more qualified than this woman could ever be..

 i do not understand how she immediately went back to work after her child was born..esp a child with special needs.. and to head onto the campaign trail like this when clearly there are some deep personal family problems going on shows a lack of sound judgment.. she's made an already difficult family issue more difficult for her sole gratification...
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5673 on: September 03, 2008, 04:39:54 PM »
ok i'm not even going to pretend that i read all of that.. but i'll say this.. i think that Palin was a horrible choice for obvious reasons.. speaking on her judgment alone I cannot understand how any woman deems it "right" to force {this was a hypothetical she was presented} their young raped child to carry their unborn fetus to term.. that goes beyond my scope of understanding.. any female should have a choice in that matter.. esp a child/teenager..

secondly there are plenty of female republicans that McCain could have chosen that were far more qualified than this woman could ever be
..

 i do not understand how she immediately went back to work after her child was born..esp a child with special needs.. and to head onto the campaign trail like this when clearly there are some deep personal family problems going on shows a lack of sound judgment.. she's made an already difficult family issue more difficult for her sole gratification...


ask yourself this...would you have even cared or thought about what was not crossed out if this were a man?
If you prick us, do we not bleed?  
  if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison  
  us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not  
  revenge? m.of v. w.shaka                                             speare

Gengiswump

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5674 on: September 03, 2008, 04:43:12 PM »

secondly there are plenty of female republicans that McCain could have chosen that were far more qualified than this woman could ever be..
 

People are now speculating that she's the stalking horse for a switch to another VP candidate, one that people may've initially had a problem with, e.g. Leiberman or Romney.  I think this is based on the assumption that no one could seriously have been this poorly vetted, now that Palin's linkages to Abramoff are beginning to surface.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/palins_lobbyist_has_abramoff_t.php
(citing but not crediting, apparently)
http://wampum.wabanaki.net/vault/2006/02/002404.html

Example speculation:
http://commonmistakes.blogspot.com/2008/09/palin-lieberman-switcheroo.html


ETA:  I'm not sure I agree, because this seems excessively devious for not enough reward, but what do I know?  Also, credit Sax, IIRC, for pointing this out to me and others.
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Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5675 on: September 03, 2008, 04:57:07 PM »
My 2 cents:

Contrary to what the Right may expect, many folks on the Left don't have a beef with Sarah Palin per se.  Personally, I don't have much to say about the lady as of yet, but then again I don't know much about her either (although I must admit that whole Iraq war is a "task that is from God" statement that she made in church on video had me raising a worried eyebrow). 

I couldn't care less what her daughter is or isn't doing with her 18 year old boyfriend. That's irrelevant to the election at hand.

What I do have an issue with is McCain's judgment in selecting somebody like Palin for the VP spot.

Looking at the resume - she served as:
City Council (4 years)
Mayor (6 years)
Governor (1 year)

At first glance in a vacuum, that looks somewhat impressive.  11 years in elected office. Wow, look at that.  Almost as much as Barack Obama (but not quite). Got some legislative and executive experience going on right?  I mean, imagine if that was city council of L.A. or Houston or Chicago.  The Mayor of New York is one helluva position - he or she is in charge of a city with a population larger than some states.  And speaking of states, the Governor of a state is usually a pretty serious deal. They're basically like the President of their own state.

But upon a deeper look, what looked somewhat impressive is not so impressive.  About 90 % of her "experience" - 4 years in a city council and 6 years as Mayor - took place in the following town:

"As of the census of 2000 there were 5,469 people, 1,979 households, and 1,361 families residing in the city. The population density was 466.8 people per square mile (180.2/kmē). There were 2,119 housing units at an average density of 180.9/sq mi (69.8/kmē). The racial makeup of the city was 85.46% White, 0.59% Black or African American, 5.25% Native American, 1.32% Asian, 0.13% Pacific Islander, 1.32% from other races, and 5.94% from two or more races. 3.68% of the population were Hispanic or Latino."

Doing the quick math, that's 0.0059 x 5,469 = 32 black people.  Folks, I had more black students in my 1L class of law school than there were in this entire "city."  As a black voter, that's a bit concerning to me.

And then in looking at Alaska, the state itself has a population just north of 600,000 - again not exactly a large or diverse cross section of the United States.  The big question of whether or not this type of a candidate is bona fide is further exacerbated by the fact that Ms. Palin has only been in this position for about as long as Obama and McCain have been campaigning for the Presidency.  This is relevant because while I feel it would be foolish and inaccurate to assert that no governor can ever be the president or vice president of the United States if they come from Alaska (although none of our presidents ever have), it is a different situation altogether when we're talking about a governor from Alaska who's been in office for only a year and some change.  Governor of New York for a year, ok, you've probably had to deal with a lot of sh!t in that one year.  Governor of New Jersey for a year, same thing.  Governor of California for a year, sure, same thing.  Governor of Alaska for a year....ehhhhhhhh.....not so much. 

GW was Governor of Texas for over 6 years before throwing his cowboy hat in the ring.  Bill Clinton was Governor of Arkansas for twice that time before running.  Jimmy Carter, Governor of Georgia for 6 years.  Ronald Reagan, Governor of California for 14 years.  FDR, Governor of New York for 3 years.  Those states + those amounts of time served = no questions asked. Alaska + 1 year 9 months = questions asked.  If you're McCain, why even make this trouble for yourself when there are other Republican, Female Governors out there with more experience??

Mary Jodi Rell - Republican Governor of Connecticut for 4 years.
Linda Lingle - Republican Governor of Hawaii for 6 years.

Not to mention:

Becky Skillman - Republican Lt. Governor of Indiana for 4 years.
Carol Molnau - Republican Lt. Governor of Minnesota for 6 years.
Jan Brewer - Republican Secretary of State of McCain's own home state for the past 6 years.

So again, it's not like McCain didn't have options in keeping with this attempt to sway disinterested Hillary voters from the Democratic party to the Republican party.  How do you skip over all of these people?  Better yet, how do you go from Liebermann to Palin?

Just doesn't make any sense, unless the criteria was Beauty Queen vs. Non-Beauty Queen, then I guess it makes sense...sorta. :P  :P

But even assuming there is some other criteria that justifies this pick that escapes us at this time, the fact remains that if the attempt was to sway Hillary voters (and all evidence suggests that it is), the logic in this attempt is flawed.  Hillary Clinton was popular among progressive men and women on the Left because she was pro-women's issues and women's rights.  Palin is not.  More importantly, the Right, as a whole, is not either and therein lies the problem:  McCain is effectively taking a play that fits naturally to the Democratic party and is trying to run it in the Republican party - a party that's not exactly the bastion of individual rights or progressive ideology, especially when it comes to a woman's right to choose.

In short, with all due respect, Sarah Palin is no Hillary Clinton.


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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5676 on: September 03, 2008, 05:06:24 PM »
keep digging...because while you are digging...the electorate will decide this thing...

people are having "hair trigger" responses and are too soon nervous about a woman who mccain cleverly chose and it doesn't matter who his other choices were...


the choice is: governor sarah palin...

try to stay focused...remember "change in washington...we can believe in"...
If you prick us, do we not bleed?  
  if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison  
  us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not  
  revenge? m.of v. w.shaka                                             speare

blk_reign

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5677 on: September 03, 2008, 05:14:56 PM »
well blue.. i didn't think it was necessary for him to choose a female for VP.. but i felt that if (rather since) he opted to go that route.. then he should have chosen someone more qualified to do so..

to answer your other questions.. i feel the same regarding my other points regardless of the gender of the candidate..

i do not feel that the "burden" falls solely on the mother when it comes to making decisions that are best for the child..esp during their first yr of life..and transporting an ill child all over the country so that one parent can run for office just isn't a good look to me..

this child isn't even six months old and is already being thrust in the middle of scandal @ the hands of his mother..

as far as abortion rights are concerned..yes the position of the candidate is important to me regardless of gender..

ok i'm not even going to pretend that i read all of that.. but i'll say this.. i think that Palin was a horrible choice for obvious reasons.. speaking on her judgment alone I cannot understand how any woman deems it "right" to force {this was a hypothetical she was presented} their young raped child to carry their unborn fetus to term.. that goes beyond my scope of understanding.. any female should have a choice in that matter.. esp a child/teenager..

secondly there are plenty of female republicans that McCain could have chosen that were far more qualified than this woman could ever be
..

 i do not understand how she immediately went back to work after her child was born..esp a child with special needs.. and to head onto the campaign trail like this when clearly there are some deep personal family problems going on shows a lack of sound judgment.. she's made an already difficult family issue more difficult for her sole gratification...


ask yourself this...would you have even cared or thought about what was not crossed out if this were a man?

We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5678 on: September 03, 2008, 05:17:37 PM »
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/1/7288/07467/844/581915

--

Grrrr.


this IS a general post...not tooooo anyone or about anyone...just back-chat now, aye know.


Whatever the hell BW said.

If this "new" lack of regard for me on your part can find its way to just ignoring anything I post, I'm A-OK with that.  In fact, I endorse it.  I approve this message. 

This entire time, I have asked for one thing, and one thing only:  Stop talking/posting/whatever-you'd-like-to-characterize-it-as at/to/about me or anything I say.  That's it.  If you have a problem with me, or my damn language (this is amazing, since I'm one of about five people who purposefully uses the language filter, much to Alci's continued amusement), then you also have a solution.  Ignore it.  Pretend I don't exist in your world.  Because, until you felt the need to post some bull response to me (when I was talking to someone else), that's what I did with you, and I was a helluva a lot happier.

And while you're at it, and since you're apparently completely paggro, seek some therapy your (damn) self.



damn, girl, aye'm sure you need some psychological help....my responses to you are not the cause...

aye didn't know aye had a problem with you...but obviously you had a problem with me...and aye don't care now.

hell, you even get upset when this trini uses the word "aye" to describe himself in the first person instead of the "not so whimsical...and conservative"..."i"...

"aye, tink you a monkey who doh see e' own tail"...and now aye, tink you dogs dead."

and aye don't care...

"aye think your back-chat is bacchanal and ya bol' face funky comm-esse makes ya chupidee...frankomen, mon!"

Again, I give you a lot more leeway than others on LSD, but this was uncalled for. 

Another poster has asked you to leave them alone on several occasions. 

Just leave them alone?

I honestly have very little idea what anything you said actually meant, but from what I can make out, it seems needlessly personal. 

And BTW, for the sake of free flowing conversation, let me double down on that advice. 
"A lawyer's either a social engineer or a parasite on society. A social engineer is a highly skilled...lawyer who understands the Constitution of the U.S. and knows how to explore its uses in the solving of problems of local communities and in bettering [our] conditions."
Charles H. Houston

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #5679 on: September 03, 2008, 05:22:54 PM »
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/1/7288/07467/844/581915

--

Grrrr.


this IS a general post...not tooooo anyone or about anyone...just back-chat now, aye know.


Whatever the hell BW said.

If this "new" lack of regard for me on your part can find its way to just ignoring anything I post, I'm A-OK with that.  In fact, I endorse it.  I approve this message. 

This entire time, I have asked for one thing, and one thing only:  Stop talking/posting/whatever-you'd-like-to-characterize-it-as at/to/about me or anything I say.  That's it.  If you have a problem with me, or my damn language (this is amazing, since I'm one of about five people who purposefully uses the language filter, much to Alci's continued amusement), then you also have a solution.  Ignore it.  Pretend I don't exist in your world.  Because, until you felt the need to post some bull response to me (when I was talking to someone else), that's what I did with you, and I was a helluva a lot happier.

And while you're at it, and since you're apparently completely paggro, seek some therapy your (damn) self.



damn, girl, aye'm sure you need some psychological help....my responses to you are not the cause...

aye didn't know aye had a problem with you...but obviously you had a problem with me...and aye don't care now.

hell, you even get upset when this trini uses the word "aye" to describe himself in the first person instead of the "not so whimsical...and conservative"..."i"...

"aye, tink you a monkey who doh see e' own tail"...and now aye, tink you dogs dead."

and aye don't care...

"aye think your back-chat is bacchanal and ya bol' face funky comm-esse makes ya chupidee...frankomen, mon!"

Again, I give you a lot more leeway than others on LSD, but this was uncalled for. 

Another poster has asked you to leave them alone on several occasions. 

Just leave them alone?

I honestly have very little idea what anything you said actually meant, but from what I can make out, it seems needlessly personal. 

And BTW, for the sake of free flowing conversation, let me double down on that advice. 

free flowing conversation is fine...make sure you split your pair and let it be known that your friend gengiswamp need not respond to my posts either...tell her to leave me alone..and dammit...step off...after all it was her initial comments to which aye responded...

thank you for understanding that it the deck cuts both ways. 8)
If you prick us, do we not bleed?  
  if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison  
  us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not  
  revenge? m.of v. w.shaka                                             speare