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Nine Years of Discussion
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Poll

Why did Sarah Palin resign?

Personal scandal
 5 (17.2%)
Probable indictment
 7 (24.1%)
Just plain craziness
 3 (10.3%)
Looooong lead up to 2012
 4 (13.8%)
Something else
 2 (6.9%)
Some combination of the above
 8 (27.6%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Author Topic: The Thread on Politics  (Read 427584 times)

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3460 on: February 18, 2008, 09:55:28 AM »
The Obama and Clinton ads are running back to back here, ya'll.


How does the scene look there?

I'm optimistic. The Latinos in Austin aren't having Hillary. That was my general impression when I was knocking on doors. Either people were Republican (and there were many) or they were leaning or definitely voting for Obama.


That's wsup.
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Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3461 on: February 18, 2008, 09:57:58 AM »
Interesting blog commentary on the whole Tavis/Obama issue:


By Dr. Boyce Watkins
www.BoyceWatkins.com

I couldn't help but notice that while many of us have been carried away by the Barack Obama train, some have refused to buy a ticket. I understand completely, because I am the last person to buy anyone's hype. Healthy skepticism is a good thing, and we should all keep it in our pocket.

But haterology is a serious science and diagnosing it can be an art.

My latest patient is Mr. Tavis Smiley. I like Tavis as a person and respect him a great deal. Tavis Smiley has branded himself as one of the top black leaders in America and is right up there with Marc Lamont Hill as one of my most respected colleagues.

While my respect for Brother Smiley runs deep, I know he is also human. In our humanity, one must be realistic when considering the fact that Tavis understands that his business is a business. There is a marketing philosophy that must be implemented, some degree of competition and ultimately, some lines that must be drawn in the sand. After all, there is more than one Tavis Smiley out there, and his work with The Tom Joyner Morning Show (among others) has allowed him to separate himself from the pack. Brother Smiley's success, prominence and power were planned, it didn't just happen by accident.

Barack Obama, by announcing his candidacy for the White House DURING Tavis Smiley's State of the Black Union was, to some, a serious line being drawn. I am sure Brother Smiley felt that anyone who is anyone in the black community must be part of his conference. Barack Obama didn't feel that way, and seemed to be less than willing to pledge allegiance to existing Black Leadership.

Tavis Smiley's State of The Black Union conference, along with his work on The Tom Joyner Morning Show and his Covenant with Black America have done a great deal for the black community. However, they have done far more for Tavis Smiley's book sales and power within the community. I can't hate on that. After all, I am a Finance Professor, so I fully understand how capitalism works. Also, my work in media allows me to understand that you're nobody until you convince somebody that you're somebody. It's not what you know, it's.....well, you get the point.

Simultaneously, Tavis Smiley must work through the demons within him that have always christened himself as the next Barack Obama. *&^%, I'm sure Tavis Smiley thought he would be Barack Obama before Barack Obama thought he would be Barack Obama. So, it must be incredibly confusing for Smiley to watch Obama go from "just some guy" to the next JFK. Tavis Smiley, Al Sharpton and others have, quite honestly, been humbled. Brothers like Tavis Smiley and Al Sharpton don't like being humbled.

Smiley's tone of "putting people on blast" for not attending his conference is somewhat problematic and reminds me of an area of Finance called Agency Theory. Agency Theory always questions the incentives of the manager or protector and allows you to wonder if the leader is doing what is best for his constituency or himself. Tavis Smiley's decision to "put people on blast" begs larger, more relevant questions: Are you being careful to balance your personal agenda with the broader needs of the community? You, Brother Smiley, sacrifice a great deal for black people, but are you willing to also sacrifice your personal power? If Barack Obama were serving your interests a bit more, would you have a different disposition?

In layman's terms, this sacrifice is like asking a man to allow another man to sleep with his girlfriend if he clearly knows that the other man would make her happier. Only true love would make a man say "yes" to such a request. Similarly, only true love for the black community can lead Tavis Smiley, or anyone else, to give up their own black power to open the gates for someone who might be a bit more effective. I am not sure if Obama is that guy, but alot of people think he is.

I am not assuming that Tavis Smiley's intentions are not honorable. But I am certainly assuming that he himself struggles with this issue, as we all do at some point. Again, it's about being human. Would a bad mother give up her child to a good one? Would a star athlete sit on the bench if it will help the team win?

The same questions can be asked of many other power brokers in the black community, all of whom have been somewhat undermined by Obama's sudden rise to prominence. Obama owes no one, he has a new team and he refuses to be beholden to the Civil Rights Movement. He is like Al Capone coming to Chicago to run the liquor business "the right way". Such boldness makes the haters come out of the wood work. That's a fact.

Obama is benefiting from a landslide of black support, built on social credit being extended on campaign promises. The Black Community is like the loving, committed spouse, willing to ignore immediate needs so their partner can conquer the world. But at the end of the day, something must be delivered.

Smiley understands this and that is why I believe he works hard for black people. At the same time, Tavis must remember the wise words of Spiderman's Uncle: With great power comes great responsibility.

Translation: Tavis - please make sure your attacks on Obama are about the community and not about you. Most of us can't quite tell the difference.

http://brothers.yourblackworld.com/2008/02/tavis-smileys-haterology-on-barack.html
"A lawyer's either a social engineer or a parasite on society. A social engineer is a highly skilled...lawyer who understands the Constitution of the U.S. and knows how to explore its uses in the solving of problems of local communities and in bettering [our] conditions."
Charles H. Houston

t L

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3462 on: February 18, 2008, 11:47:39 AM »
bet u wouldn't sound so upset if ur candidate was winning

Hillary's losing?  Link?


Just know that Obama will NEVER see the White House. 
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7S

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3463 on: February 18, 2008, 12:46:08 PM »
bet u wouldn't sound so upset if ur candidate was winning

Hillary's losing?  Link?


Just know that Obama will NEVER see the White House. 

Turn on your television or read your news.
It is easy to change the language of oppression without changing the sociopolitical situation of its victims.

Miss P

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3464 on: February 18, 2008, 01:47:46 PM »
Interesting blog commentary on the whole Tavis/Obama issue:


By Dr. Boyce Watkins
www.BoyceWatkins.com
...
http://brothers.yourblackworld.com/2008/02/tavis-smileys-haterology-on-barack.html

I agree much more with this analysis of why Smiley might criticize Obama for not attending (as opposed to the Wal-Mart conspiracy theory), but can someone tell me where Smiley said he would put Obama "on blast" for not attending?  Eugene Young tried to point me to the Joyner Show but I faithfully listened to his commentary there and he said the opposite:

He said it on the Tom Joyner Morning Show. That wasn't his exact phrasing, but that's what he meant. Something to the effect of "blow up their spot".

Okay, I just listened to his commentary online since I am not a regular Joyner listener.  This is just not what he said.  Indeed, he said, "There has not been, there is not now, nor will there be, any effort on my part to snap on the Obama campaign -- or the McCain campaign or the Huckabee campaign -- if they choose not to attend.  It was just an invitation to him and every other candidate," and later added that he had "no intention, no interest in discussing this matter beyond this commentary, no matter what is said about me, except to promote this symposium, which I [have done] every year, for almost ten years now." 

He also explained why he hasn't endorsed Obama ("I am not personally in the endorsement business.  My small part is to engage in socratic questioning."), described his long-term, positive relationship with Obama (who used to volunteer for his charity), and said directly, "I revel in his historic run for the white house.  As a black man, i celebrate his past accomplishments; I celebrate his future aspirations."  His only criticism of the decision was his opening statement that he believed it was a "critical miscalculation and a missed opportunity," a characterization he also applied to Huckabee's and McCain's decisions not to attend. (He actually focused on why he thought it was a particularly bad choice for McCain.)
That's cool how you referenced a case.

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7S

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3465 on: February 18, 2008, 04:37:22 PM »
oh Miss P. Have u never seen Rush Hour 2? "follow the rich white man"
It is easy to change the language of oppression without changing the sociopolitical situation of its victims.

Miss P

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3466 on: February 18, 2008, 05:41:31 PM »
oh Miss P. Have u never seen Rush Hour 2? "follow the rich white man"

:D  No, I haven't.  But seriously, I don't think the connection between Wal-Mart and Clinton is as strong as you make it out to be, and I don't think Tavis has shown any inclination to go easy on Clinton or Wal-Mart in the past.  This is just a dead end.

ETA: And my point is this: the furor over the SotBU seems to be that Smiley said he was going to put Obama "on blast" for not coming.  I listened to the Joyner commentary and I searched the web, and I've seen no evidence that he even said that.  Even if he did, by Valentine's Day, before we started talking about this, he was saying the opposite, and he hasn't commented since, just as he promised.  So where's the beef?  Getting wrapped up in this flareup reeks of defensiveness and desperation that Obama's campaign shouldn't be feeling right now.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

Quote from: archival
I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.

smujd2007

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3467 on: February 18, 2008, 05:47:52 PM »
I would have to agree. Most black folks that I talk to are pro Obama. The Hispanics are as described by the previous voter. . . and, surprisingly, there are quite a few caucasian people who are pro Obama. The only people I hear consistently that are pro Clinton are white females.

The Obama and Clinton ads are running back to back here, ya'll.


How does the scene look there?

I'm optimistic. The Latinos in Austin aren't having Hillary. That was my general impression when I was knocking on doors. Either people were Republican (and there were many) or they were leaning or definitely voting for Obama.


That's wsup.
smujd2007 is now an Attorney at Law!

A.

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3468 on: February 18, 2008, 06:55:14 PM »
Texas poll shows dead heat among Dems

    * Story Highlights
    * Texas voters go to the polls March 4
    * Sen. John McCain is the clear front-runner on the Republican side
    * Sen. Barack Obama is on an eight-state winning streak
    * Some strategists see Texas as a must-win state for Sen. Hillary Clinton

By Paul Steinhauser
CNN deputy political director

(CNN) -- It's all tied up in Texas.

A new CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll suggests the battle for the Democratic presidential nomination between Sens. Hillary Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois is a statistical dead heat in Texas, which holds primaries March 4.

In the survey, out Monday, 50 percent of likely Democratic primary voters support Clinton as their choice for the party's nominee, with 48 percent backing Obama.

But taking into account the poll's sampling error of plus or minus 4 percentage points for Democratic respondents, the race is a virtual tie.

Two recent polls by other organizations also show the race statistically even. Map: National and state polling

"One reason the race appears to be tight is that Texas Democrats are having a hard time choosing between two attractive options," says CNN polling director Keating Holland.

"Likely Democratic primary voters would be equally happy if either candidate won the nomination, and they don't see a lot of difference between them on several top issues.

"Roughly a quarter of likely voters say they could change their minds in the next two weeks -- and not surprisingly, those people are splitting roughly equally between Clinton and Obama."

Many political strategists and analysts consider Texas and Ohio -- which also holds a March 4 primary -- must-win states for Clinton. Obama has won the past eight contests and is now ahead in the overall battle for delegates, 193 of which are at stake in Texas.

The new survey indicates Arizona Sen. John McCain is the clear favorite for the Republican presidential nomination.

Among Republicans, 55 percent of likely Texas GOP primary voters support McCain as their choice for nominee. Thirty-two percent back former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and 11 percent support home-state congressman and former Libertarian standard-bearer Ron Paul. The poll's sampling error for Republican respondents is 4 percentage points.

The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll was conducted by telephone from Friday through Sunday. Pollsters talked to 1,506 adults in Texas, including 553 likely Republican primary voters and 529 likely Democratic primary voters.

McCain is the overwhelming front-runner in the fight for the Republican presidential nomination and party leaders have rallied around the candidate in an attempt for party unity.

The poll was released on the same day the only living former Republican president -- George Herbert Walker Bush, the current president's father -- endorsed McCain at an event in Houston. VideoWatch McCain get a big boost

But McCain has had trouble winning conservative voters. Just last week, McCain lost the conservative vote to Huckabee in the Virginia primary, according to exit polls. The new survey, though, suggests McCain may have better luck in Texas.

"It looks like McCain has made some inroads with conservative Republicans," Holland said.

"McCain is picking up a bare majority among conservative likely voters in the GOP primary. The McCain campaign probably wishes that number were higher, but it does mean that a McCain victory in Texas would not be based on the votes of moderates and independents, as has happened in several states in the past few weeks."

Texas Democrats and Republicans may not see eye to eye on the issues, but the poll suggests they do agree on what's the most important issue. Thirty-five percent of Democrats and an equal number of Republicans said the economy was the most important issue in their choice for president.

The second most important issue for Democrats was health care, at 23 percent, followed by the war in Iraq at 22 percent, illegal immigration at 10 percent and terrorism at 7 percent.

Nineteen percent of Republicans said illegal immigration was their most important issue, putting it in second place, followed by the war in Iraq and terrorism at 17 percent and health care at 8 percent.

Sixty percent of Republicans say they'll definitely support the candidate they are now backing. That number climbs to 76 percent for Democrats.

Likely Democratic primary voters view Clinton and Obama on roughly equal terms. Seventy-nine percent say they would be satisfied if Clinton were the nominee; an equal number feel the same way about Obama. Seventy-nine percent say it's likely Clinton can win the nomination; 82 percent say the same about Obama.

The two candidates are essentially tied on immigration, Iraq and the economy, but Clinton has an advantage on health care and abortion.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/18/poll.texas/index.html

2Lacoste

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3469 on: February 18, 2008, 08:25:27 PM »
Obama plagiarism.  Significant?  I say stupid on his part, but no biggie.  Just rhetoric.  Girlfriend (Hillary supporter) thinks it calls his entire sh!t into question.
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