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Why did Sarah Palin resign?

Personal scandal
 5 (17.2%)
Probable indictment
 7 (24.1%)
Just plain craziness
 3 (10.3%)
Looooong lead up to 2012
 4 (13.8%)
Something else
 2 (6.9%)
Some combination of the above
 8 (27.6%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Author Topic: The Thread on Politics  (Read 416040 times)

Eugene Young

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3380 on: February 14, 2008, 12:23:38 PM »
I'm wondering if this could be a watershed moment...if they give those delegates to Hilary and she gets the nomination because of it, would black folks flee the Democratic party en masse? I sure hope so.

Flee the Democratic party and sit the election out or flee the Democratic party and vote for John McCain?

Flee the Democratic party for good and vote for McCain although he's gone batshit crazy since 2000 and is about 643 years old. Too many folks got hit upside the head for the right to vote to sit out any election IMO.

The right to vote for someone who has spent decades in public office during a totally transformative period and has shown absolutely no desire to represent their interests?  Sounds great.  I'm not black, but personally, if these were my options, I would cast a protest vote or sit it out.  Voting for McCain is the last thing I would do.  There is no way voting for him is a better option than voting for Clinton or not voting.

To quote Clay Davis, shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiit.

I'd vote for the 1963 version of George Wallace before I'd vote for Hilary. Every day of the week and twice on Sundays. At least I know where he stands. The Clintons are full of *&^% and have been f-ing people in general, and black folks in particular, for the last 20 years.

7S

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3381 on: February 14, 2008, 12:24:26 PM »
I'm wondering if this could be a watershed moment...if they give those delegates to Hilary and she gets the nomination because of it, would black folks flee the Democratic party en masse? I sure hope so.

Flee the Democratic party and sit the election out or flee the Democratic party and vote for John McCain?

Flee the Democratic party for good and vote for McCain although he's gone batshit crazy since 2000 and is about 643 years old. Too many folks got hit upside the head for the right to vote to sit out any election IMO.

You could write in Scooby-Doo.
It is easy to change the language of oppression without changing the sociopolitical situation of its victims.

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3382 on: February 14, 2008, 01:44:53 PM »
Lol how is the AG, a cabinet position, not going to be political?

He is politically appointed. Does that necessarily mean that his position is politcal?

The AG is highly political in both senses:  AG nominations and confirmations are a political process (and serving effectively requires ongoing political goodwill) and the AG commands a tremendous amount of power over a department that addresses highly political (or politicized) issues.

So do federal judges, are they also politcal?


They're not in the presidential cabinet like the AG is.

"A lawyer's either a social engineer or a parasite on society. A social engineer is a highly skilled...lawyer who understands the Constitution of the U.S. and knows how to explore its uses in the solving of problems of local communities and in bettering [our] conditions."
Charles H. Houston

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3383 on: February 14, 2008, 02:14:58 PM »
Losing, Hillary style
By: Kenneth P. Vogel
February 13, 2008 01:45 PM EST

McALLEN, Texas – Hillary Clinton has had a lot of experience dealing with setbacks in the last five days, losing two of her top campaign aides and eight consecutive contests to Barack Obama in their battle for the Democratic presidential nomination.

But she hasn’t gotten any better at acknowledging defeats.

In speeches to supporters in Texas Tuesday night and Wednesday morning, she ignored Obama’s convincing Tuesday wins in Virginia, Maryland and Washington, D.C.

Only in a press conference after a Wednesday morning rally in this dusty border town did Clinton acknowledge the results of the Potomac primary. Even then, she said everything was going according to plan.




Look, Clinton is a well informed well polished politician with a lot of great ideas and a good working knowledge of the system, but her arrogance will be her downfall.

I submit that the reason why we're seeing things shaking up in her campaign with the personnel and the money is because of this one little fact:

She REALLY thought, without a doubt in her mind, that it was going to be over on Super Tuesday.


All of their 100+ million raised in 2007 was planned out to only take them to that date, and no further.  Only after Super Tuesday did we begin to see these $5M loans and the first serious initiatives to turn to the internet as a source for more donations to keep this thing going.  I submit that this thing has NOT been going "according to plan" at all for the Clinton camp.  Obama was supposed to be gone on Super Tuesday, not out there winning states and gaining momentum.  That was certinaly not part of the plan.

And her refusal to admit that only further compounds the problem; now people can't trust what she says.    Don't tell us everything is going to plan when WE know it's not - and definitely don't tell us everything is going according to plan when YOU know its not!  I mean, you can lie to us, but damnit, don't lie to yourself, ma!   That's not the type of president the American people want.  Give it to us straight.  If you're not winning right now, so what, big deal.  Admit it, deal with it, and move on.  But all this refusal to admit that the sky is blue when it is type *&^% is not good for publicity, and def not good for future primary voters who know better.

Sheesh.  :P
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Charles H. Houston

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3384 on: February 14, 2008, 02:16:54 PM »
Lol how is the AG, a cabinet position, not going to be political?

He is politically appointed. Does that necessarily mean that his position is politcal?

The AG is highly political in both senses:  AG nominations and confirmations are a political process (and serving effectively requires ongoing political goodwill) and the AG commands a tremendous amount of power over a department that addresses highly political (or politicized) issues.

So do federal judges, are they also politcal?


They're not in the presidential cabinet like the AG is.



But if what Miss P mentions above are considered tenets of a political position, then federal judges, by that definition, must also be political.
It is easy to change the language of oppression without changing the sociopolitical situation of its victims.

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3385 on: February 14, 2008, 02:41:56 PM »
Lol how is the AG, a cabinet position, not going to be political?

He is politically appointed. Does that necessarily mean that his position is politcal?

The AG is highly political in both senses:  AG nominations and confirmations are a political process (and serving effectively requires ongoing political goodwill) and the AG commands a tremendous amount of power over a department that addresses highly political (or politicized) issues.

So do federal judges, are they also politcal?


They're not in the presidential cabinet like the AG is.



But if what Miss P mentions above are considered tenets of a political position, then federal judges, by that definition, must also be political.

The case of federal judges is distinguishable even though you are correct in pointing out that they are appointed by a president, who by his or her very nature is a political figure.  Their (the judges) job is not to execute the political agenda of the President who appointed them, unlike the AG and the various Secretaries of the presidential cabinet who are expected to follow the agenda set by their cabinet leader.  Judges just have to go through the Prez in order to get to the impartial Judiciary.

As a practical matter, it doesn't always play out that way.  There are some judges, like the 4 horsemen, who's political affiliation effectively colors ever opinion they write.  However, it can and does work out contrary to party affiliation, as we saw with O'Connor who was appointed by the Republican Right, yet went Left on every major opinion that they needed her to go Right on.

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3386 on: February 14, 2008, 04:51:29 PM »
Speak of the devil...




House holds Bush confidants in contempt
By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 24 minutes ago
 


The House voted Thursday to hold two of President Bush's confidants in contempt for failing to cooperate with an inquiry into whether a purge of federal prosecutors was politically motivated.

Angry Republicans boycotted the vote and staged a walkout.

The vote was 223-32 to hold presidential chief of staff Josh Bolten and former White House counsel Harriet Miers in contempt. The citations charge Miers with failing to testify and accuse her and Bolten of refusing Congress' demands for documents related to the 2006-2007 firings.

Republicans said Democrats should instead be working on extending a law — set to expire Saturday — allowing the government to eavesdrop on phone calls and e-mails in the United States in cases of suspected terrorist activity.

"We have space on the calendar today for a politically charged fishing expedition, but no space for a bill that would protect the American people from terrorists who want to kill us," said Rep. John A. Boehner, R-Ohio, the minority leader.

"Let's just get up and leave," he told his colleagues, before storming out of the House chamber with scores of Republicans in tow.

The White House said the Justice Department would not ask the U.S. attorney to pursue the House contempt charges. However, the measure would allow the House to bring its own lawsuit on the matter.

It is the first time in 25 years that a full chamber of Congress has voted on a contempt of Congress citation.

The action, which Democrats had been threatening for months, was the latest wrinkle in a more than yearlong constitutional clash between Congress and the White House.

The administration has said the information being sought is off-limits under executive privilege, and argues that Bolten and Miers are immune from prosecution.

Democrats said they were acting to protect Congress' constitutional prerogatives.

If Congress didn't enforce the subpoenas, said Rep. Steny Hoyer of Maryland, the No. 2 Democrat, it would "be giving its tacit consent to the dangerous idea of an imperial presidency, above the law and beyond the reach of checks and balances."

Republicans argued that there had been no evidence of wrongdoing in the prosecutors flap, and called the vote a waste of time that would actually damage Congress' standing.

"We don't have evidence that we can give to the U.S. attorney. What we're giving to him is the desire to continue a witch hunt which has produced up to today zero — nothing," said Rep. Chris Cannon, R-Utah.

Under former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, Justice Department officials consulted with the White House, fired at least nine federal prosecutors and kindled a political furor over a hiring process that favored Republican loyalists.

Bush's former top political adviser, Karl Rove, has also been a target of Congress' investigation into the purge of prosecutors, although Thursday's measure was not aimed at him.

Fred Fielding, the current White House counsel, has offered to make officials and documents available behind closed doors to the congressional committees probing the matter — but off the record and not under oath. Lawmakers demanded a transcript of testimony and the negotiations stalled.

The White House blasted Democrats for scheduling action on the contempt measures instead of moving to extend the eavesdropping law.

"The American people will find it baffling that on a day that House leaders are trying to put off passing critical legislation to keep us safer from the threat of foreign terrorists overseas, they are spending scarce time to become the first Congress in history to bring contempt charges against a president's chief of staff and lawyer," said Dana Perino, the White House spokeswoman.

The contempt debate sparked an unusually bitter scene even in the fractious House. Democrats accused Republicans of marring the Capitol memorial for their fallen colleague Rep. Tom Lantos, D-Calif., by interrupting it with a protest vote. GOP leaders shot back that it was Democrats who were responsible for dishonoring Lantos, by calling the House into session for the contempt debate before the service had ended.

It's not clear that contempt of Congress citations must be prosecuted. The law says the U.S. attorney "shall" bring the matter to a grand jury.

The House voted 259-105 in 1982 for a contempt citation against EPA Administrator Anne Gorsuch, but the Reagan-era Justice Department refused to prosecute the case.

The Justice Department also sued the House of Representatives in that case, but the court threw out the suit and urged negotiation. The Reagan administration eventually agreed to turn over the documents.

The last time a full chamber of Congress voted on a contempt of Congress citation was 1983. The House voted 413-0 to cite former Environmental Protection Agency official Rita Lavelle for contempt of Congress for refusing to appear before a House committee. Lavelle was later acquitted in court of the contempt charge, but she was convicted of perjury in a separate trial.

On Thursday, three Republicans joined 220 Democrats to support the contempt resolution, including Rep. Walter B. Jones of North Carolina, presidential candidate Rep. Ron Paul of Texas and Rep. Wayne T. Gilchrest of Maryland, who was defeated this week in a primary. One Republican, Rep. Jon Porter of Nevada, voted "present."



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080214/ap_on_go_co/white_house_contempt&printer=1;_ylt=AjFifCoPopRkynHrnexC6dmMwfIE
"A lawyer's either a social engineer or a parasite on society. A social engineer is a highly skilled...lawyer who understands the Constitution of the U.S. and knows how to explore its uses in the solving of problems of local communities and in bettering [our] conditions."
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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3387 on: February 14, 2008, 08:14:32 PM »
All of their 100+ million raised in 2007 was planned out to only take them to that date, and no further.  Only after Super Tuesday did we begin to see these $5M loans and the first serious initiatives to turn to the internet as a source for more donations to keep this thing going.  I submit that this thing has NOT been going "according to plan" at all for the Clinton camp.  Obama was supposed to be gone on Super Tuesday, not out there winning states and gaining momentum.  That was certinaly not part of the plan.

Lol. Probably true.  But if you really want to get down to it, Obama wasn't supposed to come in the first place.  He was supposed to play Good Boy and wait his turn.  She had this all but locked up.  Then here comes Barack.  Foiled her plans.  I bet she hates him like nothing else.

***

This contempt thing is interesting.  I love it when stuff goes down between the branches.

2Lacoste

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3388 on: February 14, 2008, 08:18:15 PM »
Watching all this CNN has two saving graces:

1.  The maps.  They get to play with the maps and it reminds me of my nifty new iPhone.

2.  Amy Holmes.  She is f'n HOT.  SRSLY, I'd drop my girl and fawn in an instant if I ever bumped into her.  And she's single!
Mets will take the NL Pennant.

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Re: The Thread on Politics
« Reply #3389 on: February 14, 2008, 09:32:09 PM »
Black Lawmakers Rethink Clinton Support

By DAVID ESPO
AP Special Correspondent

WASHINGTON (AP) -- In a fresh sign of trouble for Hillary Rodham Clinton, one of the former first lady's congressional black supporters intends to vote for Barack Obama at the Democratic National Convention, and a second, more prominent lawmaker is openly discussing a possible switch.

Rep. David Scott's defection and Rep. John Lewis' remarks highlight one of the challenges confronting Clinton in a campaign that pits a black man against a woman for a nomination that historically has been the exclusive property of white men.

"You've got to represent the wishes of your constituency," Scott said in an interview Wednesday in the Capitol. "My proper position would be to vote the wishes of my constituents." The third-term lawmaker represents a district that gave more than 80 percent of its vote to Obama in the Feb. 5 Georgia primary.

Lewis, whose Atlanta-area district voted 3-to-1 for Obama, said he is not ready to abandon his backing for the former first lady. But several associates said the nationally known civil rights figure has become increasingly torn about his early endorsement of Clinton. They spoke on condition of anonymity, citing private conversations.

In an interview, Lewis likened Obama to Robert F. Kennedy in his ability to generate campaign excitement, and left open the possibility he might swing behind the Illinois senator. "It could (happen). There's no question about it. It could happen with a lot of people ... we can count and we see the clock," he said.

Clinton's recent string of eight primary and caucus defeats coincides with an evident shift in momentum in the contest for support from party officials who will attend the convention. The former first lady still holds a sizable lead among the roughly 800 so-called superdelegates, who are chosen outside the primary and caucus system.

But Christine Samuels, until this week a Clinton superdelegate from New Jersey, said during the day she is now supporting Obama.

Two other superdelegates, Sophie Masloff of Pennsylvania and Nancy Larson of Minnesota, are uncommitted, having dropped their earlier endorsements of Clinton.

On Wednesday, David Wilhelm, a longtime ally of the Clintons who had been neutral in the presidential race, endorsed Obama.

The comments by Scott and Lewis reflect pressure on Clinton's black supporters, particularly elected officials, not to stand in the way of what is plainly the best chance in history to have an African-American president.

"Nobody could see this" in advance, Rep. Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, the highest-ranking black in Congress, said of Obama's emergence. He is officially neutral in the race, but expressed his irritation earlier in the year with remarks that Clinton and her husband the former president had made about civil rights history.

One black supporter of Clinton, Rep. Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri, said he remains committed to her. "There's nothing going on right now that would cause me to" change, he said.

He said any suggestion that elected leaders should follow their voters "raises the age old political question. Are we elected to monitor where our constituents are ... or are we to use our best judgment to do what's in the best interests of our constituents."

In an interview, Cleaver offered a glimpse of private conversations.

He said Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. of Illinois had recently asked him "if it comes down to the last day and you're the only superdelegate? ... Do you want to go down in history as the one to prevent a black from winning the White House?

"I told him I'd think about it," Cleaver concluded.

Jackson, an Obama supporter, confirmed the conversation, and said the dilemma may pose a career risk for some black politicians. "Many of these guys have offered their support to Mrs. Clinton, but Obama has won their districts. So you wake up without the carpet under your feet. You might find some young primary challenger placing you in a difficult position" in the future, he added.

Obama and Clinton are in a competitive race for convention delegates. Overall, he has 1,276 in The Associated Press count, and she has 1,220. It takes 2,025 to clinch the nomination.

But the overall totals mask two distinct trends.

Obama has won 1,112 delegates in primaries and caucuses, and Clinton has won 979 in the same contests in the AP count.

The former first lady leads in the superdelegate chase, 241-164.

Not surprisingly, two sides differ on the proper role of the superdelegates.

"My strong belief is that if we end up with the most states and the most pledged delegates, and the most voters in the country, then it would be problematic for political insiders to overturn the judgment of the voters," Obama said recently.

But Clinton said superdelegates should make up their own minds. She noted pointedly that Massachusetts Sens. John Kerry and Edward Kennedy have both endorsed Obama, yet she won the state handily on Feb. 5.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California, who is neutral in the race, said she hopes one or the other of the rivals emerges as the clear winner through the primaries and caucuses.

"I don't think it was ever intended that superdelegates would overturn the verdict, the decision of the American people," she said Thursday.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CLINTON_SUPERDELEGATES?SITE=ORMED&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT