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Author Topic: UCLA University Police use taser on student in library  (Read 3435 times)

Jolie Was Here

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UCLA University Police use taser on student in library
« on: November 16, 2006, 04:38:08 PM »
I generally refrain from posting this sort of thing on LSD, but I think that this deserves attention.  My apologies if it's already been posted.

Last night a UCLA student was tasered by campus police during a verbal altercation.  There are differing accounts of the events - I have my personal biases and suspicions, but in as neutral an account as I can muster:
The student refused to show his ID to library staff during a regular sweep.  They told him he'd have to leave.  He may or may not have refused.  They left to summon the police.  (Here's where the stories really diverge.)  The campus police claim that he still refused to leave and was resisting them.  Eyewitnesses and the student himself claim that he already had his backpack on and was headed for the door.  There is no dispute over the fact that the police then tasered him and he fell to the floor.  He was shocked several more times.

The story is ugly enough on its face.  The fact that the student involved is a Muslim man will make the aftermath even messier, both for the broader community as well as, undoubtedly, for the players personally involved.  Regardless of what factors motivated the incident and whether there was ethnic or religious bias, this seems to have been a shocking escalation of force.  Truly unnecessary. 
 
Footage from a student's camera phone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3CdNgoC0cE
I warn that the video is of really poor quality, but it hit me in a way that simply reading the stories did not.

The UCLA campus paper article:
http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38958

The LA Times article:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-cellcamera16nov16,0,4794591.story?coll=la-home-headlines
I was referring to your intellectual penis. Which is quite robust.

Jolie is creeping up on me. 

Groundhog

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Re: UCLA University Police use taser on student in library
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2006, 04:50:57 PM »
Heard about it from witnesses. Sounds pretty bad...

tzip

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Re: UCLA University Police use taser on student in library
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2006, 05:02:27 PM »
Judging from that video, which doesn't show much, the guy was definitely escalating tensions by throwing a fit. Not that this would justify excessive use of force, but the video doesn't prove that there was any. I think that in California one doesn't have to present ID when requested by a cop, so no prob there, but thatís not even the point. Escalating tension is never a good idea, and if you think a police officer acts out of line, you DO NOT resist, either verbally or physically (that's what gets you tazed), you just leave and complain later to ACLU. The only thing that bothered me is that after tazing you sometimes temporarily lose full control of movement, and it would be hard to get up or put your hands behind your back, which is what they order him to do to avoid further tazing. For what its worth, he was pretty obnoxious with that whole "patriot act" sound bite.

Jolie Was Here

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Re: UCLA University Police use taser on student in library
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2006, 05:14:03 PM »
That's why I was so careful to maintain fairly neutral language.  I was not present, and reading a few articles and watching a grainy video isn't going to get me to the heart of what happened.

I understand what you're saying, and that's certainly a commonsense approach to life.  I must take exception, though, to any suggestion that he somehow deserved it (and I don't mean to put words in your "mouth" - I know you didn't say that.) 

I'm sure we've all spent enough time on college campuses to know that people in their early 20s can be unbearably smug and self-righteous.  Either way, we live in a land where being an abrasive a-hole is not illegal.  He may have been acting foolishly and obnoxiously, but he was still an unarmed and non-threatening 23 yr. old confronted by multiple armed (and trained) police officers.   
I was referring to your intellectual penis. Which is quite robust.

Jolie is creeping up on me. 

tzip

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Re: UCLA University Police use taser on student in library
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2006, 05:26:39 PM »
fair enough.

how do you think would the muslim thing come into play if at all?

Groundhog

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Re: UCLA University Police use taser on student in library
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2006, 06:23:31 PM »
Judging from that video, which doesn't show much, the guy was definitely escalating tensions by throwing a fit. Not that this would justify excessive use of force, but the video doesn't prove that there was any. I think that in California one doesn't have to present ID when requested by a cop, so no prob there, but thatís not even the point. Escalating tension is never a good idea, and if you think a police officer acts out of line, you DO NOT resist, either verbally or physically (that's what gets you tazed), you just leave and complain later to ACLU. The only thing that bothered me is that after tazing you sometimes temporarily lose full control of movement, and it would be hard to get up or put your hands behind your back, which is what they order him to do to avoid further tazing. For what its worth, he was pretty obnoxious with that whole "patriot act" sound bite.

For what it's worth, being tazed often causes involuntary muscle spasms and contractions, as well as preventing him from getting up or putting his hands behind his back. Also, if someone had just shot me with a shitload of electricity, I don't think I'd be very coherent or able to stand up.

tzip

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Re: UCLA University Police use taser on student in library
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2006, 06:34:13 PM »
Quote
For what it's worth, being tazed often causes involuntary muscle spasms and contractions, as well as preventing him from getting up or putting his hands behind his back. Also, if someone had just shot me with a shitload of electricity, I don't think I'd be very coherent or able to stand up.

that's what im saying. ever seen this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0KRCUalPgg

she can curse and wail like an animal but can't move. that would suck.

iSalute

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Re: UCLA University Police use taser on student in library
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2006, 06:36:34 PM »
That is so awesome they tazed a guy. That will teach them to show their ID.
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FossilJ

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Re: UCLA University Police use taser on student in library
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2006, 06:37:00 PM »
Judging from that video, which doesn't show much, the guy was definitely escalating tensions by throwing a fit. Not that this would justify excessive use of force, but the video doesn't prove that there was any. I think that in California one doesn't have to present ID when requested by a cop, so no prob there, but thatís not even the point. Escalating tension is never a good idea, and if you think a police officer acts out of line, you DO NOT resist, either verbally or physically (that's what gets you tazed), you just leave and complain later to ACLU. The only thing that bothered me is that after tazing you sometimes temporarily lose full control of movement, and it would be hard to get up or put your hands behind your back, which is what they order him to do to avoid further tazing. For what its worth, he was pretty obnoxious with that whole "patriot act" sound bite.

For what it's worth, being tazed often causes involuntary muscle spasms and contractions, as well as preventing him from getting up or putting his hands behind his back. Also, if someone had just shot me with a shitload of electricity, I don't think I'd be very coherent or able to stand up.


TITCR

I can't believe you'd even write that, tzip.  Yelling that you're willing to cooperate while having high voltage course through your body does not constitute "escalating tensions".  

It is ESPECIALLY not prudent for ANY police officer to use violent force in response to a verbal altercation that poses no physical threat (or, for that matter, resistance -- he was on his way out the library, for fucks' sakes).  


Quote
Not that this would justify excessive use of force, but the video doesn't prove that there was any.

Are you f-ing kidding me?

The fact that they would CONTINUE shocking him is absolutely brutal.  It's brutality, plain and simple.  If they don't get fired, UCLA is going to have a big headache on its hands.

I want you to think question this statement of yours.  Give it some thought:

Quote
if you think a police officer acts out of line, you DO NOT resist, either verbally...

Think about what it assumes about the relationship between the general population and those entrusted by that citizenry with the means of force to uphold certain rules.  



It doesn't matter WHAT this guy says -- unless he's making direct threats to the police, he can be as obnoxious as he wants, and every single bit of physical violence imposed is excessive.  I don't even care that he's Muslim, although that certainly complicates the situation.
Pish, J only wants to waste YOUR time.  Get wise.

tzip

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Re: UCLA University Police use taser on student in library
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2006, 06:49:06 PM »
oh, wait, we're not at a disagreement. im as much against police brutality as the next guy, but i think his shouting "DON'T TOUCH ME, THIS IS YOUR f-ing PATRIOT ACT, DON'T TOUCH ME" comes before the tazing, and although that doesn't warnt a taze, it is escalating a situation, which is simply a bad move. its not illegal to be a jerkoff, you're right, its just not a good idea. at the end of the day your goal is to get home, not to get on youtube, so what you do is stay calm and walk away. he wasnt doing anything illegal, but he was doing everything wrong.

secondly, the tazer is issued to police for a different reason than you assume. they're not instructed to use it only if violence is used against them. the fact that the tazer, although VERY uncomfortable, doesn't harm you beyond the inital shock, serves in substitute of using your hands, not of using your gun. a police officer would legally use a tazer to get you out of your car if you refuse, not to stop you if you run at him with a knife. they'd still use their pistol for that. your understanding of the purpose of the tazer is misled. they used it for what its for--get an incorporative person to cooperate, now whether that's right or wrong is a different discussion.