Is Tier 3 and 4 a waste of money??

[RenaldoBalkman]

What is that suppose to mean... "you people"  I take offense to that.  pretty soon you will be using other racial remarks and that is totally uncalled for. 

I used "you people" in reference to those who irresponsibly preach the benefits of going to a TTT. 

Your assumption that I will be using racial remarks is pretty uncalled for.  Considering your success on the LSAT, it's apparent that logic and critical reading aren't your strengths.

[Einstein]

What is that suppose to mean... "you people"  I take offense to that.  pretty soon you will be using other racial remarks and that is totally uncalled for. 

I used "you people" in reference to those who irresponsibly preach the benefits of going to a TTT. 

Your assumption that I will be using racial remarks is pretty uncalled for.  Considering your success on the LSAT, it's apparent that logic and critical reading aren't your strengths.

WOW I was trying to make a joke hence the  , but you murdered that one v25.

On another note.. the average salary for a T3/T4 school is around $50,000-$60,000
and that average includes all types of employment.  From my research I have found that the average salary for private practice is usually about $10,000 more than the average salary for the school.  

Now, this is just starting salary mind you.. that is not a bad salary.  I know nursing students that get a bachelor degree then go to nursing school and come out making $42,000.  At most, loans for law school will be $1,000/month.  That is $12,000/year.  So if you graduate and are making $60,000-$70,000 then you subtract the $12,000.  That puts you in the range of $48,000-$58,000 this is still more than a lot of other professions, and this is just the starting salary worst case.  

Just a thought.

[RenaldoBalkman]

Ok, I apologize.  I didn't mean for this thread to get so out of hand.  And I apologize to Einstein for the personal remarks, I misunderstood. 

Anyway, in sum.  I think going to a TTT and paying full tuition is a bad move because the deck is so highly stacked against you in obtaining gainful employment.  I am speaking from my experience in NYC.

[ptown]

Lets take a look from a ROI standpoint.

With a bachelors degree earning potential $45,000

With JD from the local T3 $60,000

Now, you will have more growth potential with the JD, but I wont even take that into account.  Let's say you never get a raise.

you are netting $15,000 per year.  If you make a $90,000 investment plus 3 years @$45k opportunity cost then you are making 11.11% on your money each year.  If you work for 30 years, that is $450,000 in additional income minus th $90,000 = $360,00 (over 30 years) - the 3 year opportunity cost = $225,000 net profit.  

I am not aware of any investment that could guarantee me 11% on my money for 30 years, not to mention the tiny benefit of having a more fulfilling career.

This is also obviously not taking into effect scholarships (which I think is a big reason people go to a lower school, especially non-trads), or if the school is a public school.

[ptown]

Ok, I apologize.  I didn't mean for this thread to get so out of hand.  And I apologize to Einstein for the personal remarks, I misunderstood. 

Anyway, in sum.  I think going to a TTT and paying full tuition is a bad move because the deck is so highly stacked against you in obtaining gainful employment.  I am speaking from my experience in NYC.

I think it has been explicitly stated, by myself and others, that lower ranked schools are really only viable in their own market.  For those markets on the east coast that are packed with t1 schools, you really don't have a very good chance.  I agree with you on this, but NYC is not a representative microcosm of the USA at large.

[queencruella]

Hey ptown, don't forget about PT programs.  If those students already have a $45K job, they might be able to keep it while in school, so it's an even greater return for those people.

Plus, on the off chance you don't do well and need to drop out after a semester, you won't be in nearly as much debt as a FTer.

[pinkytrc]

Ok, I apologize.  I didn't mean for this thread to get so out of hand.  And I apologize to Einstein for the personal remarks, I misunderstood. 

Anyway, in sum.  I think going to a TTT and paying full tuition is a bad move because the deck is so highly stacked against you in obtaining gainful employment.  I am speaking from my experience in NYC.

WHOA guys, whoa!  I think this law school stuff is driving us all nuts...NYC is definitely a different market completely.  There are so many schools there...competition is tough.  But other areas are much, much different than what your experiencing.  

[Einstein]

Ok, I apologize.  I didn't mean for this thread to get so out of hand.  And I apologize to Einstein for the personal remarks, I misunderstood. 

Anyway, in sum.  I think going to a TTT and paying full tuition is a bad move because the deck is so highly stacked against you in obtaining gainful employment.  I am speaking from my experience in NYC.

WHOA guys, whoa!  I think this law school stuff is driving us all nuts...NYC is definitely a different market completely.  There are so many schools there...competition is tough.  But other areas are much, much different than what your experiencing.  

Yea, I wouldn't even consider working in NYC.  I mean, why work there.. horrible weather, horrible cost of living, an obvious terrorist target

I visited once, and I wouldn't have a problem if I never went back.  I would rather be near a beach with sun and fun.. instead of cold and long hours so I can afford my 1 bedroom apt over a bowling alley in Manhattan.  Ok exaggeration but still..

[«ě»]

Dude, I'm working at v25 firm.  Get over yourself.  Just because I don't share your love for the TTT's doesn't mean I'm a flame.

Dude, I was a millionaire before 25. Grats on being a paper jockey at a good firm. Quite frankly, I don't believe for a second you work at any decent firm or go to any decent school, you show the typical signs of a high school schmuck trying to be cool on teh intarweb.

I don't want others to follow your example of going to a TTT and paying full tuition.

Why not? The more people that go to a T3, the more outstanding your background would be. It would make you win at life! Why do you give a *&^% where other people study or work anyway? You just have such a compassion for your fellow humans you need to enlighten them with your stunning intellect?

Don't believe me, checkout the NALP directory for employers who visit any given TTT for OCI.

Howard University has 500+ visits. Last time I checked, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Colubmia, NYU and UMich were the only ones showing more visits.

[RenaldoBalkman]

Dude, I'm working at v25 firm.  Get over yourself.  Just because I don't share your love for the TTT's doesn't mean I'm a flame.

Dude, I was a millionaire before 25. Grats on being a paper jockey at a good firm. Quite frankly, I don't believe for a second you work at any decent firm or go to any decent school, you show the typical signs of a high school schmuck trying to be cool on teh intarweb.

I don't want others to follow your example of going to a TTT and paying full tuition.

Why not? The more people that go to a T3, the more outstanding your background would be. It would make you win at life! Why do you give a sh*t where other people study or work anyway? You just have such a compassion for your fellow humans you need to enlighten them with your stunning intellect?

Don't believe me, checkout the NALP directory for employers who visit any given TTT for OCI.

Howard University has 500+ visits. Last time I checked, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Colubmia, NYU and UMich were the only ones showing more visits.

I didn't want to keep going with this but whatever.  First of all, I do go to a decent school, I'd even say that my school is a "super reach" for one such as yourself (mediocre GPA, so-so LSAT). 

Second, I think its funny htat you think I'm in High School when you're not even in school and have no idea about securing a biglaw job.  I'm not assuming you won't get one but right now you have no experience to back your arguments up.

Thirdly, I'm not trying to be an intellectual snob or some kindof elitist, I'm concerned with potential income versus debt.  Think about how hard it will be to pay back $150,000 in debt if you are making 50-60K.  There are easier ways to make money then becoming a lawyer with a TTT degree. 

Fourth, your Howard example shows how poor your logical reasoning and writing skills are.   Sure Howard gets a lot of employers for OCI, but the vast majority of TTT schools get fewer than 100.  Nice job citing the exception rather than the norm.

Why don't you tell me what schools you're applying to Keno.  As far as I can tell you will probably be going to St. John's or Hofstra.  And if you want biglaw only the top 10% will make it from there.  So you tell me if you think those odds are worth spending 150,000 dollars on.