Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Hamm asked to return gold medal...  (Read 2671 times)

Tobias Beecher

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2148
    • MSN Messenger - roger_76@hotmail.com
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Hamm asked to return gold medal...
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2004, 02:05:11 PM »
ok...

didn't paul hamm said himself that "if the FIG asked him to return the gold medal, he will comply?"

what happend to that promise?

I mean don't get me wrong, I feel bad for him and that korean dude for all that judging BS, but technically he did not deserve the gold medal.


jacy85

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 6859
    • View Profile
Re: Hamm asked to return gold medal...
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2004, 02:57:24 PM »
No, he said if the FIG "ordered" him to return it, he would.  But they're just trying to pass the blame on to him, so they "suggested" he return it. 

sodashi

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 448
    • View Profile
Re: Hamm asked to return gold medal...
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2004, 04:41:11 PM »
I know this topic died awhile ago, but I just wanted to put my two cents in. (ok, it's a bit long, but it has good points...)

Personally, I feel that Hamm won it. However, it's more his attitude that really got to me. When the controversy was in the air (without the knowledge of the 0.2 deduction for the multiple holds) Hamm was being a bit whiny and his camp had a horrible "we only care about us" attitude. The American team reps were saying that whether it's fair or not, it's not their problem that the judges misjudged a routine. At that time, the 0.2 deduction was not discovered and their attitudes were like, it's not our problem. Also, the American commentators were being quite rude towards the Korean gymnast during the individual events. Comments such as "It's mean to say, but Hamm never made a mistake as large as Yang" Wait, didn't Paul fall on his ass?

I feel that Paul was not a gracious winner and it hurts the American image when the American party was not being empathetic towards other gymnasts. The Korean party stated that they didn't want to take away anything from Hamm because they feel that he deserved it, however they wanted things to be fair.

Not only that, the reason the Koreans were upset was because when they first questioned the score of the judges right after the event, they were delayed and pushed away. Then they were told they had to file a complaint AFTER the event, which was wrong information.

Every gymnast out there has trained as long as Hamm has, maybe longer. They have trained with the dream of winning the highest coveted prize in their sport. If someone was to tell you that because of a judge's error you missed what could have been your career climax... how would that make you feel? If Hamm understood this, I think (before the .2 deduction was discovered) he should have offered to share the gold in True Olympic spirit.

I've been reading a lot on the whole controversy and although the Korean does not technically deserve the gold, Hamm could have been a better reprsentative of the American spirit.

dsong02

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4946
  • small. yellow. different.
    • View Profile
Re: Hamm asked to return gold medal...
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2004, 04:42:30 PM »
yeah.  white people suck. 

especially pasty ones named hamm.

mmm...pork.
'why does it hurt so much when i poke it?'

Tobias Beecher

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2148
    • MSN Messenger - roger_76@hotmail.com
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Hamm asked to return gold medal...
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2004, 09:42:53 PM »
I know this topic died awhile ago, but I just wanted to put my two cents in. (ok, it's a bit long, but it has good points...)

Personally, I feel that Hamm won it. However, it's more his attitude that really got to me. When the controversy was in the air (without the knowledge of the 0.2 deduction for the multiple holds) Hamm was being a bit whiny and his camp had a horrible "we only care about us" attitude. The American team reps were saying that whether it's fair or not, it's not their problem that the judges misjudged a routine. At that time, the 0.2 deduction was not discovered and their attitudes were like, it's not our problem. Also, the American commentators were being quite rude towards the Korean gymnast during the individual events. Comments such as "It's mean to say, but Hamm never made a mistake as large as Yang" Wait, didn't Paul fall on his ass?

I feel that Paul was not a gracious winner and it hurts the American image when the American party was not being empathetic towards other gymnasts. The Korean party stated that they didn't want to take away anything from Hamm because they feel that he deserved it, however they wanted things to be fair.

Not only that, the reason the Koreans were upset was because when they first questioned the score of the judges right after the event, they were delayed and pushed away. Then they were told they had to file a complaint AFTER the event, which was wrong information.

Every gymnast out there has trained as long as Hamm has, maybe longer. They have trained with the dream of winning the highest coveted prize in their sport. If someone was to tell you that because of a judge's error you missed what could have been your career climax... how would that make you feel? If Hamm understood this, I think (before the .2 deduction was discovered) he should have offered to share the gold in True Olympic spirit.

I've been reading a lot on the whole controversy and although the Korean does not technically deserve the gold, Hamm could have been a better reprsentative of the American spirit.

Good point, Sodashi.

 :-*

jacy85

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 6859
    • View Profile
Re: Hamm asked to return gold medal...
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2004, 09:28:37 AM »
I really disagree with this.  The American gymnasts and the US committee weren't being whiny, and when they said it wasn't their problem, well, it was true.  How else were they supposed to act? The issue at the forefront here is who was responsible.  It sure as hell wasn't the Americans.  It wasn't the Koreans.  It was the FIG.  And the standing rule in gynmastics, which the newscasters mentioned over and over, is that judging, as subjective as it is, stands, unless there is evidence of foul play.  As one of the American's stated, sometimes this helps an athlete, sometimes it hurts a score.  It's a roll of the dice when you step into that arena. 

It's a reasonable assumption that any other country would have reacted in the same way, whether americans were involved or not.

I didn't really hear any of the news casters saying negative things about the Korean, so I can't comment there.  It very likely happened, but they're not Paul Hamm or the US olympic committee.  Interviews I saw with Paul Hamm were very considerate to the Korea, and I heard him acknowledge the disappointment, but he stated that he felt, due to the FIG rules re: judging, that his medal is his, and that's the way it is.  Statement of fact does not constitute whining, in my opinion.

And about the Koreans not being able to file a protest?  Guess what.  FIG again.  NOT America. 

And the US committee was the one that floated the idea of sharing a medal, or issuing a second gold.  The Koreans would have been happy with this, and Paul Hamm would have followed along and agreed, but the FIG again said no, and it was only possible in cases of foul play (like the ice dancing comp at the last winter olympics).

The FIG really needs to pull it's head out of it's a** and clean it's act up.  There've been major controversies at the last two olympics.  Last was the issue of vault height.  This time around, the judging was awful, as seen in the men's all around and on the horse the next night, as well as the scoring change made last minute which cause two american men to fall off the high bar due to changes in the routine.  I blame them, and think that's where the focus should have been, NOT on Paul Hamm and whether he should give up his medal.


I know this topic died awhile ago, but I just wanted to put my two cents in. (ok, it's a bit long, but it has good points...)

Personally, I feel that Hamm won it. However, it's more his attitude that really got to me. When the controversy was in the air (without the knowledge of the 0.2 deduction for the multiple holds) Hamm was being a bit whiny and his camp had a horrible "we only care about us" attitude. The American team reps were saying that whether it's fair or not, it's not their problem that the judges misjudged a routine. At that time, the 0.2 deduction was not discovered and their attitudes were like, it's not our problem. Also, the American commentators were being quite rude towards the Korean gymnast during the individual events. Comments such as "It's mean to say, but Hamm never made a mistake as large as Yang" Wait, didn't Paul fall on his ass?

I feel that Paul was not a gracious winner and it hurts the American image when the American party was not being empathetic towards other gymnasts. The Korean party stated that they didn't want to take away anything from Hamm because they feel that he deserved it, however they wanted things to be fair.

Not only that, the reason the Koreans were upset was because when they first questioned the score of the judges right after the event, they were delayed and pushed away. Then they were told they had to file a complaint AFTER the event, which was wrong information.

Every gymnast out there has trained as long as Hamm has, maybe longer. They have trained with the dream of winning the highest coveted prize in their sport. If someone was to tell you that because of a judge's error you missed what could have been your career climax... how would that make you feel? If Hamm understood this, I think (before the .2 deduction was discovered) he should have offered to share the gold in True Olympic spirit.

I've been reading a lot on the whole controversy and although the Korean does not technically deserve the gold, Hamm could have been a better reprsentative of the American spirit.

Good point, Sodashi.

 :-*

sodashi

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 448
    • View Profile
Re: Hamm asked to return gold medal...
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2004, 10:35:52 AM »
The main reason I bring up Hamm and the American gymnastic team is because right from the beginning their attitude was "Oh darn" The first articles that came out regarding the possible judging error had many quotes from the Americans being extremely defensive and quite rude. They were not at all sympathetic to the Korean who might have deserved the Gold. If I remember correctly they quoted one of the coaches that it's like a football game, after the game, it's done whether or not there were unfair calls from the refs. No quotes about his sympathy for the possible unfair judging.... same with Hamm's father.

You're right that the FIG is the center of the problem and is the most to blame, however their actions do not dictate the American's quotes in the media and their overall attitude about the judging. Possibly later on Hamm and the other American coaches changed their attitudes, but at the beginning they were definitely singing another tune.

Also, I'm not trying to say that all Americans are like this and I find it unfair that the world generalizes Americans to be greedy, petty and self centered. If this happened between any other two countries I would have felt the exact same way. It's a shame that it had to involve an American.