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Author Topic: Michigan 1L Taking Questions  (Read 74216 times)

Tiny Sedan

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Re: Michigan 1L Taking Questions
« Reply #940 on: August 05, 2008, 02:36:46 AM »
Why not?  Their rep ratings are already comparable with CCN, as noted, and far better than Penn's. Rep ratings, along with LSAT, constitute most of the USNews ranking weight.

The only difference between UM and CLS/NYU is a few points on the LSAT.

A Loyola LA professor put out a paper on this last year.  Michigan pumping their LSAT would literally make no difference.  If Michigan's median LSAT was 180 it would not raise their ranking a single point.

flyaway

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Re: Michigan 1L Taking Questions
« Reply #941 on: August 05, 2008, 08:08:51 AM »
Why not?  Their rep ratings are already comparable with CCN, as noted, and far better than Penn's. Rep ratings, along with LSAT, constitute most of the USNews ranking weight.

The only difference between UM and CLS/NYU is a few points on the LSAT.

A Loyola LA professor put out a paper on this last year.  Michigan pumping their LSAT would literally make no difference.  If Michigan's median LSAT was 180 it would not raise their ranking a single point.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=937017

" I begin with my conclusions. First, U.S. News’ law school “ranks” are
unreliable – that is, they are subject to significant random error.32 Second,
its “overall scores,” if read with a “±2” appended, appear to be relatively
reliable – with caveats.
 
My first conclusion can be illustrated by a simple example involving
a change in the numbers of U.S. News’ lowest-ranked school – which I
will call the “bottom anchor” but otherwise leave unnamed. Assume that
the reported 9-month employment rate for graduates of the bottom anchor
falls by just 1 percentage point and nothing else changes at any school in
the country. In a reliable ranking system, one would hope that such a
change would not affect the rank of any other school. After all, this is a
miniscule change in one statistic at a school that few lawyers, law
professors, or law students have heard of.

As you might expect, nothing happens to the bottom anchor’s overall
score (by definition, zero) or rank (180th). But this tiny change wreaks
havoc on the relative ranking of the top 100 law schools. Seattle and San
Francisco jump six ranks, Fordham jumps from 32nd to 27th, and Rutgers
Camden, San Diego, and Indiana Indianapolis each jump four. Houston,
Kansas, Nebraska, and Oregon, by contrast, each drop three ranks. Overall,
41 of the top 100 schools change rank. Fordham’s dean gets a bonus.
Fingers are pointed and voices raised at Houston. All because of a trivial
change in the employment statistics of a single school far away in the
spreadsheet. Stranger still, if the bottom anchor’s 9-month employment
rate falls an additional 4 percentage points (that is, a total of 5 percentage
points) – and nothing else changes at any school in the country – most of
these effects disappear, but the reordering moves into the Top Ten. UC
Berkeley and Virginia both drop from 8th to 9th place. At the other schools
named above, it is as if nothing had ever happened."
Michigan Law Class of 2010

Lindbergh

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Re: Michigan 1L Taking Questions
« Reply #942 on: August 05, 2008, 10:01:10 AM »
Why not?  Their rep ratings are already comparable with CCN, as noted, and far better than Penn's. Rep ratings, along with LSAT, constitute most of the USNews ranking weight.

The only difference between UM and CLS/NYU is a few points on the LSAT.

A Loyola LA professor put out a paper on this last year.

This alone should've made you realize the paper was crap.

The main reason NYU passed UM in the 90's was because they jacked up their LSAT's.  Same with Penn v. UC.

If UM had a 180 median, there's little question they'd be in the 4th or 5th spot.  Again, their rep ratings are comparable to CLS and NYU, and those factors combined make up most of the ranking.  Even if they only raised their LSAT a few spots, they'd almost certainly move up to #6.  (Boalt is already there despite having one of the lowest LSAT medians in the T14, and rep ratings generally below UM's.)

The idea that UM would not rise above higher-ranked schools with lower rep ratings (Penn, Boalt, etc.) if they had the highest LSAT's in the country is simply irrational.

If it makes you feel better, I can rephrase it as "raised their LSAT's and jimmied their employment stats", the latter being what Penn also did to move up from #12 to #6.


Gengiswump

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Re: Michigan 1L Taking Questions
« Reply #943 on: August 05, 2008, 01:49:21 PM »
Lindbergh, since you aren't a Michigan student, unless you have a question about being a Michigan student, can you please take your LSAT mongering and/or blatant prestige whoring elsewhere?  I think I can speak for a number of people when I say it's not on thread topic, not helpful, and not wanted - you're basically making actual Michigan people look bad by your mere presence.
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Bouzie

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Re: Michigan 1L Taking Questions
« Reply #944 on: August 05, 2008, 06:11:02 PM »
I vote that someone change the name of this thread to "Michigan 3L Taking Questions."  Yeh, its that old.
1L

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Gengiswump

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Re: Michigan 1L Taking Questions
« Reply #945 on: August 06, 2008, 03:26:00 PM »
Can't be changed Bouzie.  We'll have to struggle on, misnomered.
Quote from: tj.
Write a PS on it, fuckstick.

Quote from: Miss P
Sometimes all you've got is a wacky hi-jink.

Quote from: Miss P
This is truly the ultimate in toolish douchebaggery.


Res nonnumquam ipsa loquitur, sed aliter aeternaliter queritur.

hollowman988

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Re: Michigan 1L Taking Questions
« Reply #946 on: August 06, 2008, 06:04:15 PM »
What are the three best and three worst things about Michigan?


The people, the sports, Ann Arbor as both great college town and place within an easy drive of a real airport.

Not lots of stuff to do outside within an easy drive (skiing, rafting, hiking of any worthwhile sort), the winter's endless, the summer starter thing means your friends may leave earlier than you want and that when you arrive in the fall there's a portion of the summer class that's reflexively annoyed by your presence. Oh, also, you can't get a decent bagel for *&^%.
The Victors:
Music to make love to your old lady by?

Gengiswump

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Re: Michigan 1L Taking Questions
« Reply #947 on: August 06, 2008, 06:07:46 PM »
Dude, that bagel thing is the G*d's honest truth, for reals.  Croissants too.

U of M:  Bad for breakfast pastries.
Quote from: tj.
Write a PS on it, fuckstick.

Quote from: Miss P
Sometimes all you've got is a wacky hi-jink.

Quote from: Miss P
This is truly the ultimate in toolish douchebaggery.


Res nonnumquam ipsa loquitur, sed aliter aeternaliter queritur.

The Poster

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Re: Michigan 1L Taking Questions
« Reply #948 on: August 06, 2008, 07:47:01 PM »
Can't be changed Bouzie. We'll have to struggle on, misnomered.

mod can still change it i think.
quote Stanley J. Watson III
you are doomed in the fated sense, but that's completely irrelevant because that's only from the viewpoint of someone who is not constrained by time. since you are temporal, for all intents and purposes you have the power to change your future

Lindbergh

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Re: Michigan 1L Taking Questions
« Reply #949 on: August 07, 2008, 11:29:06 AM »
Lindbergh, since you aren't a Michigan student, unless you have a question about being a Michigan student, can you please take your LSAT mongering and/or blatant prestige whoring elsewhere?  I think I can speak for a number of people when I say it's not on thread topic, not helpful, and not wanted - you're basically making actual Michigan people look bad by your mere presence.

Please explain how I'm engaging in LSAT mongering and/or prestige whoring.

Someone asked what UM would have to do to be considered comparable to CCN.  I explained that to most lawyers, they already are, and that for the remainder, it would basically be a matter of raising their LSAT scores to CLS/NYU levels, as that would elevate them in the rankings to a comparable level. 

In other words, I'm simply answering a question posed earlier in the thread.  If you have a problem with that, you're welcome to leave. 

If you are in fact a UM student, you're the only one making them look bad by your obnoxious and offensive attitude.  I think I can speak for a number of people when I say that.  :P