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Tony Blair's Comment - CNN

FossilJ

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Re: Tony Blair's Comment - CNN
« Reply #60 on: October 18, 2006, 04:52:58 PM »
 :D :D :D

Anansi, you damn cynic!

President_Baccaga

Re: Tony Blair's Comment - CNN
« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2006, 04:53:55 PM »
Quote
Countries don't have cultures.  They only have farcical, arbitrary political boundaries.

I disagree.  You are certainly right on continents such as Africa, but there is a distinct Italian culture (I know I frequently revert to all things Italian...).  While there are certain small regions within Italy where there is some level of French and German influence (Valle D'Aosta and Trentino Alto-Adige respectively), an overriding Italian culture exists throughout the country.  There might be a certain level of regionalization, but that is relatively slight.  Even in countries where regionalization is more defined, a general melting of those regional cultures exists within that particular country (again, there are exceptions), even if some overlapping is present (i.e. Italian and French elements on the Franco-Italian border, etc.).

BrerAnansi

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Re: Tony Blair's Comment - CNN
« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2006, 05:00:01 PM »
Quote
Countries don't have cultures.  They only have farcical, arbitrary political boundaries.

I disagree.  You are certainly right on continents such as Africa, but there is a distinct Italian culture (I know I frequently revert to all things Italian...).  While there are certain small regions within Italy where there is some level of French and German influence (Valle D'Aosta and Trentino Alto-Adige respectively), an overriding Italian culture exists throughout the country.  There might be a certain level of regionalization, but that is relatively slight.  Even in countries where regionalization is more defined, a general melting of those regional cultures exists within that particular country (again, there are exceptions), even if some overlapping is present (i.e. Italian and French elements on the Franco-Italian border, etc.).

So let me get this straight...Region A = Region B, except when it doesn't??...

redemption

Re: Tony Blair's Comment - CNN
« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2006, 05:00:31 PM »

So let me get this straight...Region A = Region B, except when it doesn't????


lol

President_Baccaga

Re: Tony Blair's Comment - CNN
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2006, 05:01:43 PM »
Quote
So let me get this straight...Region A = Region B, except when it doesn't??...

Exception in cases such as countries in Africa (for which I already conceded that no national culture exists).

FossilJ

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Re: Tony Blair's Comment - CNN
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2006, 05:02:09 PM »
Quote
Countries don't have cultures.  They only have farcical, arbitrary political boundaries.

I disagree.  You are certainly right on continents such as Africa, but there is a distinct Italian culture (I know I frequently revert to all things Italian...).  While there are certain small regions within Italy where there is some level of French and German influence (Valle D'Aosta and Trentino Alto-Adige respectively), an overriding Italian culture exists throughout the country.  There might be a certain level of regionalization, but that is relatively slight.  Even in countries where regionalization is more defined, a general melting of those regional cultures exists within that particular country (again, there are exceptions), even if some overlapping is present (i.e. Italian and French elements on the Franco-Italian border, etc.).

Such "melting of regional cultures" is the exception, as are countries that have defined "cultures".  In any case, a few bad apples spoil the bunch.  

And even Italy's boundaries hinge on random historical contingency -- you think di Cavour and Garibaldi didn't capitalize on the arbitrary political decisions wrenched by conflict between other European powers (Austro-Hungary and Prussia come to mind)?

And what about Lega Nord and Due Sicilie today?

Countries don't have cultures.  Cultures have cultures.  Countries are political states with arbitrary boundaries.  Sometimes they contain a fairly homogeneous culture.  Sometimes they don't.  It's a matter of coincidence -- Italy is one of the very few possible exceptions (and I don't even truly think it is an exception; at least, not in the way you want it to be).

Also, your comment regarding African states is a tad ignorant.  

BrerAnansi

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Re: Tony Blair's Comment - CNN
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2006, 05:07:22 PM »
J, shush...
Nampa, Idaho = Astoria, Queens...the President has spoken...

President_Baccaga

Re: Tony Blair's Comment - CNN
« Reply #67 on: October 18, 2006, 05:15:31 PM »
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And what about Lega Nord and Due Sicilie today?

What about Lega Nord?  Lega Nord exists primarily because of wealth distribution fostered in Rome from the relatively rich north to the poor south.  It has basically nothing to do with culture.  Sure, there are slight differences between la Padania and Palermo but those differences are slight and are the exception.  Have you ever lived in Sicily?  Do you know anything about Sicilian culture?  I have lived there for two years and my girlfriend is Sicilian, so if you really know something about why Due Sicilie exists, let me know.

Quote
Also, your comment regarding African states is a tad ignorant.  

Why ignorant?  If there's any place where your statement that countries only have "farcical, arbitrary political boundaries" holds true, it's in Africa, where during the period of African conquest and colonization, European powers divided lands (and hence ethnic groups) without any regard whatsoever to historical tribal boundaries, alliances, etc.  There are many places in Africa where individuals care much more about their ethnic identity than any affiliation to a particular country.  

redemption

Re: Tony Blair's Comment - CNN
« Reply #68 on: October 18, 2006, 05:18:02 PM »
Oy vey.  :D


 :-X

President_Baccaga

Re: Tony Blair's Comment - CNN
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2006, 05:19:06 PM »
J, shush...
Nampa, Idaho = Astoria, Queens...the President has spoken...

Uhh... did I ever state that there was a national culture in America?  I don't think so.  I conceded that some countries do not have a national culture.  Furthermore, extremes on the spectrum don't mean a whole lot... statistically, they're generally not even considered.