"personal experience"

[Ithacabomber]

Heres my overcoming adversity. My mother was imprisoned when I was 16 and my father took off. I became financially independent and lived in apt worked 30 hours a week through high school...yah it was ruff but it made me wanna go into law. Would this experience help my 141 LSAT?

[drewpac]

Your story should help you in admissions but that LSAT score is seriously weighing you down.  There are only a few schools that will admit with an LSAT below 145, regardless of your gpa. 
Your best bet would be to work as hard as you can to increase your LSAT score before next years admission cycle.  If you can get it above 150 you would easily get into some nice third-tier schools.  Good luck.

[dailoshane]

Full disclosure: I'm Asian and probably stand to "benefit" from affirmative action in regards to applying to law schools.

Even with all your anecdotal evidence that affirmative action is robbing more qualified white people of positions (in schools, jobs, etc.), you have to realize that there are studies that show, for example, that people named Tyrone and Latasha have a tougher time finding jobs than Toby and Linda, EVEN WHEN THEIR QUALIFICATIONS ARE STRONGER. The one I'm talking about I could probably search for and find. I think it was either a Harvard or Yale study, but I can't remember.

Now let's talk about affirmative action specifically in our case, an Asian applicant vs. a white applicant. I didn't benefit at all from special considerations for Asians in applying to undergrad (not a problem anyway since I couldn't afford to go anywhere better than UTexas). Let's talk about the fact that English is my second language. Should that be considered a disadvantage? I absolutely think not, since plenty of people grow up around less-than-perfect English. However, the ability to speak Chinese should be a huge plus, because Chinese speaking individuals need lawyers too. The same would apply to Latinos and blacks because their communities would prefer representatives of similar background. We are not yet ready to see a world that doesn't need affirmative action, but I hope to see that day during my lifetime.

Now as far as hardship goes, I think it's beneficial only to demonstrate hardship for the purpose of emphasizing strengths, such as perseverance, commitment, and stuff like that. Otherwise, the hardships may often be seen as a liability. That's the way I see it, of course. I could be wrong. It's all just a judgment call as to how much "tragedy" and "hardship" you put into your personal statement. I personally am leaning toward more interesting content, because my hardships were neither unique nor fascinating, and I'd rather write about other stuff.

Shane

[march hare]

I have been reading posts on this board for quite some time, without feeling the need to post anything until now.

For prospective law students, it strikes me as odd that no one in this thread has addressed the Michigan affirmative action case from last year.

This case challenged the college's affirmative action admission policies in the Supreme Court.  The case was settled as such:  Race CANNOT be used as a factor indexed into undergraduate admissions policies.

However, the Court also held that race CAN be used as a factor which can be added into the GRADUATE college admission index.  The reason being-- graduate students will BENEFIT from having a diverse population of students.  A white, middle or lower-middle class student has no idea what life is like for a black person.  They never will.  However, whites need to know how black people (and other racial minorities) are affected by laws, policies, and care.  Black people and white people are NOT the same, and DO have different insights to bring to the table.  Meeting people of different races brings all of us a better understanding of others, and hopefully will lead to a better world for all of us.

Minorities, elderly, children, immigrants, and the handicapped have all been discriminated against in this country.  This is no new concept.

It is understandable to want to blame minorities for not getting into law school, or for not getting a job.  No one wants to feel like they couldn't cut it themselves. 

However, the field of law needs open-minded individuals who can relate to others.  The student who can speak Chinese above has a tremendous asset to share with their future employer.  Black students can relate to future black clients, etc..

The affirmative action policies of college admissions staffs have only one goal in mind:  to develop and encourage open mindedness and better understanding of each other by creating a diverse student body.

[auto208562]

well, melissa2781, I see your point but I disagree with you in most cases, even though I do understand where you are coming from.  See, as a chinese american in los angeles, I am not really a minority.  There are so many chinese americans out on the west coast, that even though we are fewer in number than whites, we do have a large representation. So I think I can give a very un-bias opinion because I have been on both sides of the fence.

On affirmative action, this is very relative to how one looks at affirmative action.  Don't you think that if whites and blacks were reversed in history, where whites were slaves, and blacks had the privelages, don't you think it would be fair to try to balance out the work force through affirmative action for whites?  Being not white or black, I think that would be fair. 

On anyone being able to make it, make it where?  It's not about just working hard and believing in yourself.  Why do you think there are only whites in most high level corporate america jobs?  Do you think they are all smarter and work harder than any other race?  You don't think this has something to do with history?  I am in corporate america right now, went to UCLA, graduated with Mathematics, received several technical certificates...but I had a stereotypical white education.  My parents came from China from a line of political and military generations, not as a refuge...and I still will not get as far as most whites in the same position because of the color of my skin.  I'm about as even as it gets with white kids, except the color of my skin.

Have you seen boyz in the hood?  I know it's a movie, but it's a very fair representation of what happens to many black kids in Los Angeles.  I have many friends who teach in the los angeles school district.  The poorest schools are in the black areas.  The least qualified teachers are in the black areas.  Those parents, many single, have to work a day and night job, unable to give the support that is needed for a successful student.  So what do these kids do?  screw around in the worst areas in los angeles.  And do you think these kids think they can make it?  Looking at their parents struggling so hard, their brothers who are in gangs, friends that have died...Do you think they even think about going to college...or even law school...No they don't.  Yes, there are kids that make it, but the majority, believe me, don't.  Do you think these kids don't work hard for their given situation?  This is a similar situation to what people refer to as "white trash."  It's not the kids fault, but by the time they are in high school if they get that far, they are already out of the running.  If they can make it through college and to law school or corporate america, yes, I believe 100% they should have special treatment.  Once you get in, trust me, if you suck, you'll get kicked out of law school or fired.

Am I saying you didn't work hard?  No I'm not.  That's not even what affirmative action is trying to say, even though people like you incorrectly think so.  It's all about trying to level the playing field.

Look, like I said, it's from which side of the fence you are looking from.  If you were black or a minority, you would want affirmative action.  If you are white or for that matter, any majority, you will not.  But seeing it from both sides of the fence, I still believe we need it. 

Be a little objective and put yourself in our shoes, and you glass you are looking through may be a little clearer.  And maybe not...

And no offense to you either. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.  There is no wrong here.     

[lawstudent2004]

"However, the field of law needs open-minded individuals who can relate to others.  The student who can speak Chinese above has a tremendous asset to share with their future employer.  Black students can relate to future black clients, etc.."

I agree that the student who can speak Chinese does have a valuable asset that should be reflected in the admissions process.  However, speaking a different language is something that this person worked hard to achieve, he/she did not have to work to become a minority it was given to him/her and should not be factored in to the admissions/scholarship process.  Are you saying that white people can not relate to black people?  That sounds like a racist comment.

"Black people and white people are NOT the same, and DO have different insights to bring to the table."

Your right black people are black and white people are white, some rich, some poor, some smart, some dumb...  Again another racist comment.

"On affirmative action, this is very relative to how one looks at affirmative action.  Don't you think that if whites and blacks were reversed in history, where whites were slaves, and blacks had the privelages, don't you think it would be fair to try to balance out the work force through affirmative action for whites?  Being not white or black, I think that would be fair." 

If white people and black people were reversed in history than I would be sorry for my great great great grandparents, but I would love to be given all the percs.  I would probably think it was fair then, or maybe think it wasn't fair and enjoy it anyway.
 
Have you seen boyz in the hood?  I know it's a movie, but it's a very fair representation of what happens to many black kids in Los Angeles.  I have many friends who teach in the los angeles school district.  The poorest schools are in the black areas.  The least qualified teachers are in the black areas.  Those parents, many single, have to work a day and night job, unable to give the support that is needed for a successful student.

Are you kidding boyz in the hood.  (What is a boyz anyway)  That sounds to be a poverty comment not a race comment.  I am from a middle class family but I am almost certain that there are a few poor white people out there somewere.

[march hare]

" Are you saying that white people can not relate to black people?  That sounds like a racist comment."

"Your right black people are black and white people are white, some rich, some poor, some smart, some dumb...  Again another racist comment."


The truth is not a racist comment.

The fact that you did not make the connection between Boyz in the Hood and racial poverty, is an obvious example of how whites cannot relate to blacks.  This is another reason to admit minorities in grad programs; to encourage the elimination of such blatant ignorance.

[nyugrad]

I had a hard time getting jobs because of "affirmative action", and the jobs were automatically given first to the minorities who applied, despite their qualifications, and my qualifications being higher than theirs.

As someone who has actively recruited and been recruited for professional positions, I have an extremely hard time believing this statement and would be interested in hearing some of the facts that support it.  Because it is illegal to set a quota or ask about racial affiliation in the application process, it is hard to detect and report problems with discrimination.  However as someone has already pointed out here, there have been studies that prove that the same resumes with ethnic names do not get called in for interviews as often as their counterparts with non-ethnic names.  This could prove that there is a general bias towards people of certain ethnicities or that the people in the study didn't think someone with a distinctly ethnic name could properly represent their firms.  You be the judge.  If you look at any information that gives you an ethnic breakdown of firms, you'll find that many have absolutely no Black/AA partners and proportionately low numbers of associates.  Let’s not begin to talk about the Asian Female or Latino populations.  Is this because the hiring partners are racists or they just haven't me the right applicants?  You will be hard pressed to prove the matter either way.

I will definitively say the following: Your qualifications only get you an interview with an employer.  Top employers recruit the top of the class regardless of sex and race.  Everyone that gets to meet with them has a 3.7-4.0 and top scores.  Everyone they meet with is qualified when it comes to the numbers.  It is the interview that gets you the job--period.  If you have a 4.0 and perfect scores but can't communicate why I should care or how that information translates into a success in my firm, I'm going to hire the person who can, even if they have a 3.7.

If you can prove or have serious evidence pointing to the fact that you did NOT get a job solely based on the color of your skin, you have cause to bring legal action against that employer.  If not, you are only weakening your argument against affirmative action by bringing in unsupported information.

[lawstudent2004]

I am white and grew up in the Army.  I was surrounded by kids from all races, distributed almost equally.  To say that I cant relate to black people, who I grew up with, is ridiculous. 

[march hare]

Your resentment of affirmative action shows this is not so.