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Author Topic: Letters of Acceptance  (Read 29227 times)

ruskiegirl

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Re: Letters of Acceptance
« Reply #220 on: April 13, 2004, 02:21:57 PM »
Bombs,

As my GPA indicates, I obviously have no trouble with final exams. You have under a 3.5.  What's your excuse? Did you have a bad four years?

kslaw

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Re: Letters of Acceptance
« Reply #221 on: April 13, 2004, 02:24:41 PM »
I believe his growing frustration with AA practices has led Louder than Bombs to jump to a conclusion and vent his frustration on someone whose situation doesn't actually apply to AA.

Cal4ever has mentioned (as has her boyfriend) that she has experienced personal hardships that were mentioned either on her application or in her personal statement. I think many people underestimate the value admissions offices place on this aspect of the application. We don't know what that hardship is in Cal4ever's case, but we do know that there was something extraordinary about her application that made it rise above the numbers.

I've noticed those that don't have numbers are upset that numbers count too much, and those who have the high numbers gripe that the numbers don't count enough.

I think most of us would agree that an ideal candidate for law school is the person who has both the intelligence and the character to handle the rigorous curriculum. What we don't agree on is how to measure intelligence and character. cal4ever's personal hardships may have truly affected her LSAT score. and the admissions office, while looking at the rest of her application (esp. GPA and personal statement) may have been willing to forgive the lower LSAT score because the other factors were so strong. I can't believe that anyone would think that a law school wouldn't accept an applicant whose application was strong in all areas but one for any reason other than URM status, esp. when the applicant being discussed is not a URM, and the school being discussed is in a non-affirmative action state.

Anyway, though long-winded, the point I'd like to make is that while AA may be discriminatory and unfair, to assume that a minority was accepted due only to AA is narrow-minded and unfair.

One last thing I wanted to add. While I have, in the past, made the argument that LSAT is a good indicator, I've done so only to initiate the discussion and hear others' thoughts on it.

The truth of it is...the first time I took the LSAT, after months of preparation, I scored a 159.

The more recent time, with only a few weeks of preparation, then an illness and death in the family the week before the test, I scored a 168. That tells me that there are quite a few factors that can affect an LSAT score. Admissions offices are probably well aware of that.

mermistress

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Re: Letters of Acceptance
« Reply #222 on: April 13, 2004, 02:26:24 PM »
congrats on boalt cal and ruskiegirl...
i would like to point out that none of us have any idea how boalt calculates their index numbers.  however, based on their mean lsat and gpa figures compared to those of similarly ranked schools, i would suggest that boalt places a greater weight on undergraduate gpa than lsat score in their admissions process.  if you look at the data from the usnews rankings, boalt's 25% gpa is higher than that of every law school ranked above them with the exception of harvard, stanford, and yale.  their 25% lsat, however, is 160...eight points lower than that of geprgetown, whom they are ranked above. 
i think Boalt knows what they are doing...potential for academic success is not best measured through performance on one standardized test. 

tomatilloz

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Re: Letters of Acceptance
« Reply #223 on: April 13, 2004, 02:26:54 PM »
Chris,
    I posted this to show you that maybe you should take up your argument directly with the Boalt admissions office instead of with others on this board. They are very clear, it seems to me, as are almost all other competitive law schools, that numerical measures are only part of an application. Many other qualities they find compelling—for Boalt, "vision, commitment and integrity"—can hardly be gleaned from a four-hour exam (although a GPA is a little better for this purpose). What "qualifies" an applicant to be admitted to a particular school is open to debate (to put it mildly, based on this board). Context is obviously very important to law school admissions offices, and it damn well better be to prospective law students.

_____________________________ _____________________________ _____________________________ _

Quote from: tomatilloz on Today at 07:32:00am
http://www.law.berkeley.edu/prospectives/admissions/:

"Boalt Hall offers an unparalleled legal education, and the intellectual excellence of its students as well as their varied interests and backgrounds are among the school’s greatest strengths. The school selects students who will bring vision, commitment and integrity to their professional lives, and who will go on to serve as leaders in their fields.

Boalt Hall seeks to educate outstanding lawyers who will serve the legal needs of society. The J.D. program provides students from diverse backgrounds the opportunity to study at a leading law school. Entering classes include students from all geographic areas of the country and from abroad; students with advanced degrees, substantial work experience, a great array of life experiences and special achievements."


It was nice of you to post this, but unfortunately I don't see anything in this quote that has to do with admitting underqualified or unqualified applicants because they are black or latino. You must have cut-and-pasted wrong.

Chris

Louder Than Bombs

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Re: Letters of Acceptance
« Reply #224 on: April 13, 2004, 02:28:14 PM »
"Applicants' LSAT scores and undergraduate grade point averages (GPAs) are important criteria to evaluate academic ability. Applicants may use the mean LSAT percentile and undergraduate GPA of the previous year’s admitted applicant pool (97th percentile and 3.81, respectively, for applicants admitted in 2002) as a guide for assessing their chances of admission. Because Boalt takes other factors into account in making admission decisions, higher or lower scores and grades neither ensure nor preclude admission."

Louder, you are using the words unqualified and underqualified liberally and without justification.  Evidently your definition does not parallel that of the Boalt Hall admissions committee.

Really, I am using these words without justification? I guess then that I am also not justified in saying that LSAT and GPA are BY FAR the two MAIN criteria used for determining the qualification of a law school applicant.

I believe Boalt agrees with me, just not in the case of minority applicants. That is why their amissions practices are discriminatory.

Seriously, do you honestly think you can make a case for Cal's acceptance when Boalt's MEDIAN LSAT for 2002 (a less competitive year than the past two) was in the 97th percentile AND their median GPA was 3.81?!?! Are you serious! Both her scores were BELOW the medians, and her LSAT was abysmal according to Boalt standards. If I had applied with those [Cal's] numbers, I would have been the laughing stock of the admissions office.

Chris

Louder Than Bombs

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Re: Letters of Acceptance
« Reply #225 on: April 13, 2004, 02:29:50 PM »
Bombs,

As my GPA indicates, I obviously have no trouble with final exams. You have under a 3.5.  What's your excuse? Did you have a bad four years?

I wasn't aware that ALL or even MOST undergraduate classes base their grades solely on students' performance on final exams. Your school was much different than mine, apparently.

Chris

hollywoodude

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Re: Letters of Acceptance
« Reply #226 on: April 13, 2004, 02:32:07 PM »
Chris:

Did you get in ANYWHERE?? Just curious: your ferocity this morning suggests otherwise.

ruskiegirl

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Re: Letters of Acceptance
« Reply #227 on: April 13, 2004, 02:32:25 PM »
If I had applied with those [Cal's] numbers, I would have been the laughing stock of the admissions office.

I see you are still not touching my case...
Why didn't they laugh when I applied with very similar numbers?

ruskiegirl

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Re: Letters of Acceptance
« Reply #228 on: April 13, 2004, 02:35:29 PM »
Even if I had a 100 going into the final, I couldn't maintain an A average when finals count for at least 40% of the grade.  You're smart. Do the math.

Louder Than Bombs

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Re: Letters of Acceptance
« Reply #229 on: April 13, 2004, 02:38:37 PM »
Chris:

Did you get in ANYWHERE?? Just curious: your ferocity this morning suggests otherwise.

I scored a 170 - of course I got in to several schools, but that is not the point.

The point is that admissions offices use different criteria to evaluate minority and non-minority applicants that HIGHLY favor minorities. This discriminatory practice is the crux of the matter, I am afraid.

If you don't believe me, go and pull up some statistics on the median LSAT and GPA's for minority and non-minority students at a certain school.

Chris