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Author Topic: Ouch - Minorty women screwed at firms...  (Read 5860 times)

mantis

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Re: Ouch - Minorty women screwed at firms...
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2006, 12:03:07 PM »
Believe me, it surprised me, too.  I still vividly remember getting off the phone and almost laughing in disbelief.  Ultimately I decided this is what I get for having the last funny-lookin' name in the directory.  I was a crime of opportunity more than anything else I think.  ;)  Wished I had caller ID so I could have called them back (and the balls to do so...).  Now that would have been interesting.

umm, if your a girl, would you EVER have the balls to do so?  ;D



Awww.. you even used my favorite grammatical error!  Your = Possessive.  You're = You Are.  They mean two different things.  Really!

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Re: Ouch - Minorty women screwed at firms...
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2006, 12:05:42 PM »
Believe me, it surprised me, too.  I still vividly remember getting off the phone and almost laughing in disbelief.  Ultimately I decided this is what I get for having the last funny-lookin' name in the directory.  I was a crime of opportunity more than anything else I think.  ;)  Wished I had caller ID so I could have called them back (and the balls to do so...).  Now that would have been interesting.

umm, if your a girl, would you EVER have the balls to do so?  ;D



Awww.. you even used my favorite grammatical error!  Your = Possessive.  You're = You Are.  They mean two different things.  Really!

alot of people mention that, but your going to have a hard time convincing me that it matters....
Do you really believe in free speech, or just in speech you agree with?

h2xblive

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Re: Ouch - Minorty women screwed at firms...
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2006, 12:14:13 PM »
Believe me, it surprised me, too.  I still vividly remember getting off the phone and almost laughing in disbelief.  Ultimately I decided this is what I get for having the last funny-lookin' name in the directory.  I was a crime of opportunity more than anything else I think.  ;)  Wished I had caller ID so I could have called them back (and the balls to do so...).  Now that would have been interesting.

umm, if your a girl, would you EVER have the balls to do so?  ;D



Awww.. you even used my favorite grammatical error!  Your = Possessive.  You're = You Are.  They mean two different things.  Really!

alot of people mention that, but your going to have a hard time convincing me that it matters....

Are you sure you want to practice law?

->Soon

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Re: Ouch - Minorty women screwed at firms...
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2006, 12:15:50 PM »
Believe me, it surprised me, too.  I still vividly remember getting off the phone and almost laughing in disbelief.  Ultimately I decided this is what I get for having the last funny-lookin' name in the directory.  I was a crime of opportunity more than anything else I think.  ;)  Wished I had caller ID so I could have called them back (and the balls to do so...).  Now that would have been interesting.

umm, if your a girl, would you EVER have the balls to do so?  ;D



Awww.. you even used my favorite grammatical error!  Your = Possessive.  You're = You Are.  They mean two different things.  Really!

alot of people mention that, but your going to have a hard time convincing me that it matters....

Are you sure you want to practice law?

i can spell correctly when needed.  here, it is not.
Do you really believe in free speech, or just in speech you agree with?

h2xblive

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Re: Ouch - Minorty women screwed at firms...
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2006, 12:19:13 PM »
Believe me, it surprised me, too.  I still vividly remember getting off the phone and almost laughing in disbelief.  Ultimately I decided this is what I get for having the last funny-lookin' name in the directory.  I was a crime of opportunity more than anything else I think.  ;)  Wished I had caller ID so I could have called them back (and the balls to do so...).  Now that would have been interesting.

umm, if your a girl, would you EVER have the balls to do so?  ;D



Awww.. you even used my favorite grammatical error!  Your = Possessive.  You're = You Are.  They mean two different things.  Really!

alot of people mention that, but your going to have a hard time convincing me that it matters....

Are you sure you want to practice law?

i can spell correctly when needed.  here, it is not.

It's alot easier to spell and write correctly all the time, rather than "turning it on" when necessary.  Also, you never know who's reading and watching; wouldn't hurt to maintain "appearances," don't you think?  But whatever, it's your life/career.

mirror

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Re: Ouch - Minorty women screwed at firms...
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2006, 12:22:42 PM »
Maybe they arent 'screwed' but rather finally getting equal treatment.  Life's tough when you are measured by a bottom line and dont get bonus points for not being white.  Its absurd to think firms are trying to 'screw' minorities.  They care about making money.  

Keeshi

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Re: Ouch - Minorty women screwed at firms...
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2006, 12:28:10 PM »
Maybe they arent 'screwed' but rather finally getting equal treatment.  Life's tough when you are measured by a bottom line and dont get bonus points for not being white.  Its absurd to think firms are trying to 'screw' minorities.  They care about making money.  

And when they're attempting to make money, they're not including women and minorities! It's kind of hard to break the "concrete ceiling"

obamacon

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Re: Ouch - Minorty women screwed at firms...
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2006, 12:36:45 PM »
A few thoughts on the NPR story and the study in general:

Quotes from the NPR story:

Quote
“You have to have an incredibly tough skin... I had people make comments like, 'Oh, you're Indian. Where's your tomahawk? Are you going to scalp me?' Or, 'Can I call you Pocahontas?'… When I was called 'chief' and brought it to people's attention, I was told, 'Oh, you're spoiling [our work] environment here.' So I had to leave."

Would you think the same thing if these were an Irish, French, or German jokes? Personally, while this could get annoying if it was an everyday occurrence, I have no problem with people making fun of my obviously French appearance, taste, and snobbish view of those who don’t share my preferences.

Quote
"They gave me a document in Korean and said, 'Can you read this?' And I said, 'This is Korean. I'm Chinese.' And they couldn't understand why I couldn't read it."

If this had been a Russian male handed a document in another language using the Cyrillic alphabet or a Frenchman given a document in Haitian Creole you’d probably have the same situation without any charges of racial insensitivity.

Quote
"Most of the white associates [at my firm] went to state schools, but all the minority associates were from the top ten law schools. If you’re not from a top ten law school and you’re a minority candidate, you’re not on the same playing field as a white applicant from any law school."

Perhaps minority candidates tend to graduate with a much lower rank in the class (from what I’ve read they do) and thus, to find a similar candidate for a top 10% white grad from a school ranked in the 40s you have to get a T14 minority candidate in the bottom 30% of the class.

Quote
“I felt like an exotic animal. I was always asked to attend functions and award ceremonies, speak to law students of color and pose for advertising publications. However, I never had contact with partners in power other than at these events. Law firms would do well to examine whether their associates of color are given real opportunities to interact with the power structure of the firm."

You mean that a law firm would use minority lawyers to talk to possible minority candidates or pose for advertising meant to show that the firm has minorities working for it? For shame. As for the rest of it, there are lots of firms out there where partner access is limited or nonexistent, so while this could be a racial issue, it could also be one of the unfortunate effects of working for a lawyer controlled enterprise.

As for the study itself, it was based on this:

Quote
“Nine hundred and twenty attorneys returned a completed questionnaire for the American Bar Association. Of these, 632 were minority women; 132 were minority men; 194 were white women; and 157 were white men.”

That isn’t exactly a recipe for getting a good view of what's actually going on now is it?

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Re: Ouch - Minorty women screwed at firms...
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2006, 12:38:50 PM »
related

An uphill battle for working womenWomen are struggling to make ends meet and are concerned about the prospects for young people entering the workforce, a new survey has found.
BY CINDY KRISCHER GOODMAN
cgoodman@MiamiHerald.com

Basic economic issues top the list of what working women are worried about, according to a survey released Monday by the AFL-CIO.

The rising cost of healthcare, pay not keeping up with the cost of living and not having retirement benefits are issues of high concern to about 23,500 working women who participated in the online survey by the federation of unions.

Working women also are concerned about the next generation of workers. More than eight in 10 younger workers -- women under 30 years of age -- said they were more worried and concerned than confident about the future of young people going into the workforce.

''Working women are worried that the younger generation won't get jobs that can pay the bills or have basic benefits. Their prospects are considered dim,'' said Karen Nussbaum, executive director of Working America, the AFL-CIO affiliate for workers who don't have unions at their jobs.

Nussbaum said the survey results that most surprised her were those addressing equality in the workplace. Working women still feel the workplace is a ''man's world'' and indicate they are treated as ''second class'' on the job. More than half (57 percent) feel they do not receive equal pay for equal work.

At the same time, pay is what drives most women to work, the survey shows.

Despite recent publicity on women ''opting out'' of the workforce, women who participated in the survey said they work to pay bills and provide healthcare for their families. Even those who wanted to exit the paid labor force because of family responsibilities said they were prohibited because of the rising costs of living and healthcare. Only a minority of women have access to paid family medical leave or control over their work hours.

The survey also shows working women support legislation that addresses their concerns. About 65 percent said that making healthcare affordable was one of two priorities that would most improve their lives as working women. Their second priority was making retirement more secure.

African-American women cited strengthening laws that challenge discrimination and unfair treatment and strengthening equal-pay laws as one of their top two legislative priorities.

Just last week an American Bar Association report revealed 81 percent of minority women quit private law firms within five years because they get shunted into dead-end jobs and aren't welcomed the same way as other new employees.

The study urged firms to enforce existing anti-discrimination and anti-harassment policies, and do more to integrate minority women into firms' professional and social fabric.

In the wake of the AFL-CIO survey, Nussbaum said she urges women to support an increase in the minimum wage and push for universal healthcare and pay equity.
Do you really believe in free speech, or just in speech you agree with?

mantis

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Re: Ouch - Minorty women screwed at firms...
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2006, 01:14:24 PM »
Architect: I tend to agree with you that some of the complaints generated by the - granted, not entirely representative - survey are not necessarily "racist" and are probably best dealt with by developing a thick skin (or willingness to joke around, if you prefer).  However, I do think it's a little bit sad that people might not understand why not all Asian/Cyrillic/insert-non-western-alphabet-here languages are the same.  If you went to a halfway decent law school I would hope you were well-educated enough to understand the concept of different languages based on the same alphabet.  I've accepted that it will generally be part of my role to explain why, as Chinese person, I can't translate Korean (or Chinese for that matter... but whatever); why, even though I'm Mexican, I still can't direct you to a gardener or maid or whatever; why, even though I'm a woman, I don't have a "time of the month" when I'm irrational and angry all the time.  I've accepted it.  But that doesn't mean I think that it's right.  And that doesn't mean that I can't hope it will be different in ten years, twenty years, and so on.

Also, I think there's a pretty wide difference between a colleague giving me a hard time because - perhaps like you - I have somewhat snobbish tastes in food or music and someone suggesting that, because I'm Native American, the day might come that I want to scalp her.  Even in jest I think there are some things that cross the line.  Race-based suggestions of violence being one of those things.  I realize the person probably thought it was a really funny joke, but when that woman objects to being called Pocahontas (because she probably has an actual name) I don't think it's justified to accuse her of spoiling the atmosphere of the workplace.

Last thing:

Quote
Perhaps minority candidates tend to graduate with a much lower rank in the class (from what I’ve read they do) and thus, to find a similar candidate for a top 10% white grad from a school ranked in the 40s you have to get a T14 minority candidate in the bottom 30% of the class.

I concede that this is a possibility.  However, assuming that the minority candidates came from a better school/lower class rank than their white peers seems equally erroneous as assuming that they all came from the same class rank.  Where am I trying to go with this... I guess, just to say that none of us -- person quoted in the NPR story as well -- is in a position to make any assessments about hiring practices unless we have the full information about the hires.  Now if the person quoted is on one of the recruitment committees or something, that's a different story...