Law School Discussion

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Poll

Are women given URM benefits in the admissions process, and should they be?

They are not, nor should they be.
 22 (34.4%)
They are, but shouldn't be.
 5 (7.8%)
They aren't, but should be.
 15 (23.4%)
They aren't, and shouldn't be.
 22 (34.4%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Author Topic: Women = URM???  (Read 9858 times)

Ginatio

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Women = URM???
« on: August 18, 2004, 02:16:23 PM »
someone on another thread indicated (probably sarcastically, but I'll take them literally for the purposes of this thread) that they wish women would be given URM status in the applications process.

it seems, however, that roughly 50% of every incoming class in the country (with some exceptions, obviously) is female... which begs the question: Are women in fact already being given preferential treatment in the admissions process over males?

personally, i'd be interested to know what the LSAT/GPA break is between admitted males and females at some of the top schools to see if women ARE being admitted more often with weaker stats than their male counterparts just so that schools can keep the 50/50 m:f ratio...

it's not so obvious as racial URM diversity admissions, but just as relevant...

Ginatio

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Re: Women = URM???
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2004, 02:23:23 PM »
bump

foxnewssucks

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Re: Women = URM???
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2004, 02:24:35 PM »
Women have GPAs and LSATs equivalent to their male counterparts, you sexist bastard.

Ginatio

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Re: Women = URM???
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2004, 02:27:02 PM »
Women have GPAs and LSATs equivalent to their male counterparts, you sexist bastard.

where's the proof?

Miltra

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Re: Women = URM???
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2004, 02:30:22 PM »
Hey there.  I was me on the other thread who suggested this.  Have you ever read "Becoming Gentlemen" by Lani Guinier?  It pretty much discusses this topic.  Basically what she found (10 years ago at Penn) was that women come in with equal scores but graduate having done less well then comparable men.  I think THAT'S a much more interesting topic. 

(Not that I want to hijack your thread...)

lexylit

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Re: Women = URM???
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2004, 02:30:37 PM »
as of only a couple years ago, more women than men are applying to law school. that doesn't mean, however, that they're adequately represented at the top schools, and they're often not adequately represented on the law reviews of those top schools, for example. there are fewer women in the top 5% at the top schools for sure, and that plays a role in the hiring process (and clerkships) as well.

from what i've heard and read, the avg. female gpa is a little higher and the avg male lsat is a little higher. i don't have facts at hand to back that up, but maybe i'll go scout some out as i seem to miraculously have no assignments today at work. men have traditionally done a little better on standardized tests, but that's finally turning around (e.g. with SAT). rumor has it that a couple years ago yale went to its waitlist expressly for more women; i wonder if that's a result of a lopsided yield (i.e. the guys getting in go there, while more girls they take might opt for e.g. stanford as girl-friendlier).

i don't think women get much extra consideration for being women, but at schools that are farther from 50/50-- in EITHER direction-- it probably helps a bit to be the less-represented gender. i'm sure it helps to be a woman with a less typical educational background, e.g. a woman engineer.

i've been researching how law review selection goes, and i saw at least one school reserving spots for diversity candidates. if the vast majority of those who grade on are men, i'm sure they could use those diversity spots to round out the count some.

Ginatio

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Re: Women = URM???
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2004, 02:31:32 PM »
Hey there.  I was me on the other thread who suggested this.  Have you ever read "Becoming Gentlemen" by Lani Guinier?  It pretty much discusses this topic.  Basically what she found (10 years ago at Penn) was that women come in with equal scores but graduate having done less well then comparable men.  I think THAT'S a much more interesting topic. 

(Not that I want to hijack your thread...)

no problem. anything that gets people talking.

the Guinier book you mention was more about women not being able to deal with the style of teaching in addition to somewhat sexually biased treatment from the professors as well, correct?

lexylit

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Re: Women = URM???
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2004, 02:31:46 PM »
Have you ever read "Becoming Gentlemen" by Lani Guinier? 

damn, i've tried to find this and the last 3 bookstores i checked were sold out-- how bizarre. guess it's amazon.com time.

mukhia

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Re: Women = URM???
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2004, 02:33:32 PM »
Yes - I'd like to see some more stats on this...also, which gender comprises the majority of top 10% of class, etc.  Come on Ginatio - dig it up somewhere.

Miltra

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Re: Women = URM???
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2004, 02:35:50 PM »
Hey there.  I was me on the other thread who suggested this.  Have you ever read "Becoming Gentlemen" by Lani Guinier?  It pretty much discusses this topic.  Basically what she found (10 years ago at Penn) was that women come in with equal scores but graduate having done less well then comparable men.  I think THAT'S a much more interesting topic. 

(Not that I want to hijack your thread...)

no problem. anything that gets people talking.

the Guinier book you mention was more about women not being able to deal with the style of teaching in addition to somewhat sexually biased treatment from the professors as well, correct?

Yeah.  Although I would not say "sexually biased" treatment, but rather that there was not a female-learning style friendly environment.  She sort of writes the book taking for granted that women are equally gifted to the men in the same school, which was why I meantioned it.  I think I remember her saying that the medians were similar for both...