Why Does Affirmative Action need Justification?

[obamacon]

This isn't the oppression Olympics and there's no need to agrue these points.

I'll read and respond later, but I just wanted to congratulate you for writing the funniest thing I’ve seen here this week.

[H4CS]

This isn't the oppression Olympics and there's no need to agrue these points.

I'll read and respond later, but I just wanted to congratulate you for writing the funniest thing I’ve seen here this week.

Thanks, I stole the concept from Angela Davis.  Also, I misspelled argue.

[scooby21322]

Just to throw another point out there, I don't think that a lot of people who are against AA feel that their spot has been taken by a benificiary of AA, but rather that it doesn't seem fair that someone who has underperformed isn't subjected to the same standards.  I know I can't get into Yale, but I do feel that is unfair that someone who has similar qualifications as me can. 

[H4CS]

Just to throw another point out there, I don't think that a lot of people who are against AA feel that their spot has been taken by a benificiary of AA, but rather that it doesn't seem fair that someone who has underperformed isn't subjected to the same standards.  I know I can't get into Yale, but I do feel that is unfair that someone who has similar qualifications as me can. 

You put the rabbit in the hat with the word underperformed, no wonder you were able to pull something out at the end. 

But I actually dissent on this point with a lot of pro-AA people.  AA hurts most white people.  Granting people additional rights will always cause one element of society to fight back, even if they are non-exclusive rights, it's one of the basics of the new institutional economics.  Allowing women go to law school hurt men in the same way.  AA helps very qualified white people by giving them the benefits of diversity while screwing over mediocre candiates who might in fact lose a spot that they would previously been more likely to receive.

Let's use the analogy of the Negro Leagues.  You better believe that allowing black players to play in the MLB hurt many sub-par white players who now had to compete against more people for the same number of roster spots.  At the same time, it definitely benefitted the white players who now got to compete against a higher caliber of player and it most certainly benefitted fans who got to see better games.  Now imagine if the Brooklyn Dodgers decided that instead of looking at the whole player to determine talent, they were rather going to look at something insular such as how fast you ran the 40 during the scouts' combine.  Woah, this analogy is getting out of control, but I think the point stands.

[H4CS]

its not a large number of whites that lose their spots, but there are some. the problem with your analogy is that the schools don't look at the whole applicant. you can be a 4 star general, have a ph.d in nuclear physics, a 4.3 gpa, be the winner of a nobel prize but if you're white and have a 164 lsat, you don't get into hysccn.

They are not "their" spots.  And you are wrong, there are outstanding non-URMs at the top schools with great GPAs, great soft factors, and low 160s.  There are also people with great LSATS and soft factors with not-so-great GPAs.

[H4CS]

They are not "their" spots.  And you are wrong, there are outstanding non-URMs at the top schools with great GPAs, great soft factors, and low 160s.  There are also people with great LSATS and soft factors with not-so-great GPAs.

This is right about where you start citing me as evidence, isn't it?

It's doubly amazing since all those sneaky URMs kept stealing your spot.

[H4CS]

stop playing word games. if they would have gotten in in the absence of affirmative action it was their spot. onward to your next point. aa supporters always say that non-urm's get into the top schools with low 160's lsats but they never seem to show up on lsn. i wonder why.

Your statement is about as sensible as saying "they would have gotten in if fewer qualified people applied" or "they would have gotten in if adcoms put extreme priority on tying your shoes while drunk."  Nobody has a right to a spot and they are not applying in a vaccuum.  Hell, all those spots would have been mine if the only requirement was having my name.  Goddamn URMs stealing my spots.  Bastards don't even have my name.

And LSN is just not an acurate way to measure this.  At admitted students weekends, people would secretly admit that they felt out of place with low scores and were very excited to be there.  One of my friends is going to HYS with a 163, big guy.  I know others in the 160 range.  None of them had heard of LSN.  Most likely because they were too busy doing great things, such as your hypothetical nobel prize winning, to pay attention to piddling sites like these.  Not all of us are that smart.

[H4CS]

aa supporters always say that non-urm's get into the top schools with low 160's lsats but they never seem to show up on lsn. i wonder why.

Because I don't feel like posting. "Low 160's" is a bit harsh, but I'll take the bait anyway.

Yale troll.  Not a top school, buddy.

[scooby21322]

It's not a matter of who has a right to a spot, it is a matter of who deserves a spot.  A person with better credentials deserves a spot more than someone who's aren't as good.  I still for the life of me can't understand how anyone could justify letting an individual who isn't as qualified to take a spot while there are more qualified people who don't have that spot.

Also, you talk about people with great soft factors getting in, and that's great, but they've actually accomplished something.  Being born into a certain race isn't accomplishing something.  It doesn't add to your character at all really, no matter what race your born into.  Character is actions you've taken (or in some cases not taken). 

[KingJason]

FIRST I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IS NEEDED. I HAVE READ ALL MESSAGES ON THIS BOARD AN ITS APPARENT THAT SOME OF YOUR HAVE MISSED THE BIG PICTURE. SOME OF YOU ARE CLAIMING THAT "THEY TOOK MY SPOT" OR "THEY ARE NOT QUALIFIED". BUT THE ONE I HEARD THE MOST IS "WE HAVE SIMILAR CREDITIALS". I HAVE SEVERAL POINTS TO MAKE AND PLEASE READ AND UNDERSTAND THEM BEFORE ATTEMPTING REPLY!

1. FIRST OFF A PERSON FROM THE PROJECTS OR ANY OTHER ECONOMICALLY DISADVANTEGED INNER/ OUTER CITY IS DEFINTLEY NOT THE SAME AS A WHITE PERSON WHO IS 2, 3, 4... GENERATION COLLEGE STUDENT, LETS BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT!! THEIR EXPERIENCES ARE VERY DIFFERENT AND ITS AMAZING HOW MUCH CAN BE LEARNED FROM EITHER SIDE ONCE THE MEET, IT WORKS TWO FOLD, STUDENTS GAIN KNOWLEDGE FROM EACH OTHER WHICH IN TURN HELPS THEM TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY EFFECTIVLEY. A VALUABLE AND UN-CONTENDED BENEFIT OF AA.

2. LETS HONEST AS TO WHY MINORITIES DON'T FARE WELL ON THE CREDENTIALS. WE (YES I SAID WE) HAVE SECOND-THIRD RATE INNER CITY PUBLIC SCHOOLS, HIGH CRIME RATES WHICH CREATES STRONG CRITICISMS (WHICH IS PRODUCED BY POVERTY BY THE WAY), AND TO TOP IT ALL OFF SEVERLY LIMITED EXPOSURE TO HIGHER EDUACTION IN GENERAL SO WITH THOSE KINDS OF BARRIERS ITS NO WONDER WHY ITS A HARDER ROAD TO ATTAIN THE POSSIBLITY TO GO TO COLLEGE LET ALONE LAW SCHOOL. ACT AND SAT PREP BELIEVE IT OR NOT IS NOT NECC. OFFERED IN PRIMARILY MINORITY SCHOOLS. WITH THOSE LIFE EXAPERIECES THEY BRING TO THE CLASSROOM OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE 0 IDEA OF WHAT EXPEREINCES EVEN LOOK LIKE IT WILL EDUCATE THEM(LAST I CHECKED THAT WAS THE GOAL OF EDUCATION) AND ALSO EMPOWER THE MINORITES TO EMPOWER THEMSELVES.

3.ITS READILY APPARENT THAT AA IS TAKEN PERSONALLY BY SHORTSIGHTED PEOPLE. THEY SAY THIS PERSON TOOK MY SPOT  HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW IT WAS YOUR SPOT HAVE YOU HAD A LIFE FULL OF HARDSHIPS I MEAN COME ON. BUT THATS BESIDES MY INTENDED POINT. AA IS JUST TRYING TO DIVERSIFY THE CLASS WHILE ALOWING THOSE FROM MINORTY BACKGROUNDS TO HAVE THE SAME OPPURTUNITY. THE OUTCOME WOULD BE A DIVERSIFIED CLASS SENSITIVE TO MORE THAN JUST THE ELITE!!! BELIEVE IT OR NOT ITS ACTUALLY NOT ABOUT YOU!!


4. AA IS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE NOT JUST A FEW PEOPLE. HONESTLY HOW MANY NON-URMS HAVE BEEN PUSHED IN TO COLLEGE BY THEIR FAMILY. FOR URMS THIS NOT VERY OFTEN THE CASE. ITS NOT TO BLAMING ANYONES PARENTS BUT JUST SOMETHING TO BE CONSIDERED.

ONE DAY ONE OF YOU WILL HAVE A CLIENT THATS A MINORITY, SO TELL ME HOW VALUABLE WAS IT TO HAVE MINORITIES IN YOUR CLASS TO TELL ABOUT THEIR CULTURE. AND VICE-VERSA FOR MINORTIES

I KNOW YOU ALL ARE GOING TO ARGUE AN POST AND QUOTE...YADA YADA YADA. BUT HONESTLEY AT LEAST ONE OF YOU WILL BE A LAWYER SO I WRITE THIS IN THE HOPE THAT SOMEONE LOOKS AT WHAT I SAID AND REALIZES THAT WE ARE HERE TO SERVE THE COMMUNITIY. I AM AN AFRICAN AMERICAN MALE AND JUST BY READING THIS YOU MAY HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO ANOTHER SIDE OF THIS ARGUMENT.