Urgent: Please help! Southwestern v. Chapman

[pinkybella]

military - By "balenced" you mean republican, right?  It's ok, but I thought that it was a given.  Chapman is in the OC, after all.

No, I mean balanced.  Just because a school might have a couple more conservaive profs does not make it a "republican" school.  Chapman's faculty still shows about a 9:1 raio of liberals to conservatives.  Better than the nearly uniformly liberal faculty a most cali schools.

I have found Chapman to be more libertarian than anything else. It is not conservative in which you have ultra-christians trying to convert you. However, I think the majority of the school's focus in aimed towards it business school and theatre and dance schools.

That is good to know. I had heard rumors that the school was ultra-conservative. I'm glad this is not the case.

[Wetlist]

Yes, Chapman is on the rise.  But, it may be hard to find a job because of the school's relatively short existence.  Chapman may have a better law program or more quality students than the other two OC schools** (Whittier and Western State), but Whittier and Western state been around for decades and have an alumni base of 4000 and 9000 respectively and place better than Chapman according to some orange county attorneys i've worked for. 

Southwestern has a higher starting salary median than Chapman (I read the facts somewhere, sorry too lazy to link them here), and because of its age (aba accreditted 1970), Southwestern has greater visibility in the legal community. 

I guess what i'm trying to get at is this:  Chapman seems like its on the rise, but no matter how good a program is, many employers won't hire you if they've never heard of the school, or know anyone that graduated from the school.  It may take a while to reap the benefits of a school on the rise.  Southwestern is older/more established.  So from an employment standpoint, I believe Southwestern is the way to go. 

This is just one factor to consider out of many.  Go where you think you'll be happiest.

ZOT ZOT, rip'em eaters



**just an assumption i made by comparing bar passage rates: Chapman at 67%, Whittier and Western State around 40%

[grendel20]

Yes, Chapman is on the rise.  But, it may be hard to find a job because of the school's relatively short existence.  Chapman may have a better law program or more quality students than the other two OC schools** (Whittier and Western State), but Whittier and Western state been around for decades and have an alumni base of 4000 and 9000 respectively and place better than Chapman according to some orange county attorneys i've worked for. 

Southwestern has a higher starting salary median than Chapman (I read the facts somewhere, sorry too lazy to link them here), and because of its age (aba accreditted 1970), Southwestern has greater visibility in the legal community. 

I guess what i'm trying to get at is this:  Chapman seems like its on the rise, but no matter how good a program is, many employers won't hire you if they've never heard of the school, or know anyone that graduated from the school.  It may take a while to reap the benefits of a school on the rise.  Southwestern is older/more established.  So from an employment standpoint, I believe Southwestern is the way to go. 

This is just one factor to consider out of many.  Go where you think you'll be happiest.

ZOT ZOT, rip'em eaters



**just an assumption i made by comparing bar passage rates: Chapman at 67%, Whittier and Western State around 40%

ZOT ZOT!

[pop_tort]

I am totally a suburbanite from OC and San Diego, and contrary to what others have said I think that SW is in a fun and safe neighborhood. I was there from 9-10 pm, left my windows down with my little llasa on the front seat. It seemed like a cool and hip place, with a lot to do on Wilshire. I think one has to be very sheltered to think that 'urban' and 'bad neighborhood' are synonomous.

Most of the city of LA is "urban"....SW is in a "bad neighborhood", which happens to be encoupassed by an "urban" area.

I've lived in LA my entire life, and while the area around SW isn't too bad in the daytime, it's not the kind of place you really want to walk around at 9-10pm with your little llasa. Some of the biggest El Salvadorian gang neighborhoods are just a few blocks away (right by MacAurthur Park) and Korea Town is a few steps west of the school - both are very tough neighborhoods. Sitting with your windows down in a moving car will make just about anyone feel *safe* (although I'd hate to get caught at a red light with my windows down over there....). If you continue westbound on Wilshire past La Brea, you get into the mid-Wilshire area which is more "urban" and yes, there are some things to do down there.

[pop_tort]

I was planning on going to Chapman but I just got off the WL at Southwestern & now I'm not sure which school to attend. Which law school (in your opinions) has a better reputuation and better job opportunities after graduation? I'm impressed by the firms that OCI at Southwestern but I also know it's the 4th best school in LA and Chapman is the best school in Orange County. I've also heard Southwestern is really really competitive environment while Chapman seems more laid back.

Which school would you choose if you were me? I don't want to go into big law but I also want to make sure I have the most opportunities after graduation. I'd most likely want to practice in Orange County & I am interested in family law & employment law primarily.

Please help. Any info/advice/suggestions would be great. Thanks! 

If you don't want to go into biglaw (yay!!) and you want to work in OC, then go with Chapman. Another anti-biglaw option would be to into the public sector, and I'm sure it would be much easier to pursue a position with once of these agencies:
 

• OC DA - (http://www.orangecountyda.com/home/index.asp)
• Clerking in the Federal Courts in OC - (http://www.cacd.uscourts.gov/Cacd/CourtInfo.nsf/c755da45cb6a17bc882567d10055026e?OpenView)
  
• Working as a City Attorney - check out city websites to get more options about these departments (Santa Ana: http://www.ci.santa-ana.ca.us/cao/ or Anaheim: http://www.anaheim.net/section.asp?id=93)
  

If you don't want to work in government, there are pleanty of medium/small sized firms in the area. Besides, OCI isn't everything and many times you will have to turn up the heat on your own job search. In the end, it sounds like Chapman is the best bet for you.... let us know what happens!!

[wannaB1L]

I am totally a suburbanite from OC and San Diego, and contrary to what others have said I think that SW is in a fun and safe neighborhood. I was there from 9-10 pm, left my windows down with my little llasa on the front seat. It seemed like a cool and hip place, with a lot to do on Wilshire. I think one has to be very sheltered to think that 'urban' and 'bad neighborhood' are synonomous.

Most of the city of LA is "urban"....SW is in a "bad neighborhood", which happens to be encoupassed by an "urban" area.

I've lived in LA my entire life, and while the area around SW isn't too bad in the daytime, it's not the kind of place you really want to walk around at 9-10pm with your little llasa. Some of the biggest El Salvadorian gang neighborhoods are just a few blocks away (right by MacAurthur Park) and Korea Town is a few steps west of the school - both are very tough neighborhoods. Sitting with your windows down in a moving car will make just about anyone feel *safe* (although I'd hate to get caught at a red light with my windows down over there....). If you continue westbound on Wilshire past La Brea, you get into the mid-Wilshire area which is more "urban" and yes, there are some things to do down there.

actually I parked my car, and left my windows down for Blue- she is high maintenance  . I walked around that gem of a building, and could not see my car when I was on Wilshire, though most of the time the vehicle was within view. I guess I am just not so soft or easily intimidated by knee high socks (I did not see any). I thought the area was relatively nice, and there were some cafes and the like still open at that hour, as opposed to say the garmet district where everything shuts down at night, and some crackhead would have stolen Blue in the hopes they could trade her for five dollars worth of crack.
ps- what does encoupassed mean? and would you really consider Rancho Palos Verdes Estates LA?Also if someone was at SW from 9-10PM with their windows down- does that not imply that they were stopped, or perhaps they were driving at 1/56th of a mile per hour.

[pop_tort]

I am totally a suburbanite from OC and San Diego, and contrary to what others have said I think that SW is in a fun and safe neighborhood. I was there from 9-10 pm, left my windows down with my little llasa on the front seat. It seemed like a cool and hip place, with a lot to do on Wilshire. I think one has to be very sheltered to think that 'urban' and 'bad neighborhood' are synonomous.

Most of the city of LA is "urban"....SW is in a "bad neighborhood", which happens to be encoupassed by an "urban" area.

I've lived in LA my entire life, and while the area around SW isn't too bad in the daytime, it's not the kind of place you really want to walk around at 9-10pm with your little llasa. Some of the biggest El Salvadorian gang neighborhoods are just a few blocks away (right by MacAurthur Park) and Korea Town is a few steps west of the school - both are very tough neighborhoods. Sitting with your windows down in a moving car will make just about anyone feel *safe* (although I'd hate to get caught at a red light with my windows down over there....). If you continue westbound on Wilshire past La Brea, you get into the mid-Wilshire area which is more "urban" and yes, there are some things to do down there.

actually I parked my car, and left my windows down for Blue- she is high maintenance  . I walked around that gem of a building, and could not see my car when I was on Wilshire, though most of the time the vehicle was within view. I guess I am just not so soft or easily intimidated by knee high socks (I did not see any). I thought the area was relatively nice, and there were some cafes and the like still open at that hour, as opposed to say the garmet district where everything shuts down at night, and some crackhead would have stolen Blue in the hopes they could trade her for five dollars worth of crack.
ps- what does encoupassed mean? and would you really consider Rancho Palos Verdes Estates LA?Also if someone was at SW from 9-10PM with their windows down- does that not imply that they were stopped, or perhaps they were driving at 1/56th of a mile per hour.

Forgive my type-o.. I meant to say "encompassed", and please note that I did say "the city of LA". Although RPV is in LA County, it's not part of the city (http://palosverdes.com/rpv/).

I never said you couldn't park your car down there are walk away till it's out of sight. Hell, your car can get stolen just about anywhere in L.A. if someone wants it badly enough. But I wouldn't park my car anywhere and leave the windows down. Not even in the backyard at my parent's house - and I grew up in the suburbs outside the city of LA. But hey, if you do that down near SW and your car is still there when you get back, that's fantastic.... I wouldn't recommend making that a habit - but then again, if you want to possibly put your car insurance to use. . .

I've kicked it everywhere in Socal from Watts to Westwood, Palms to Pasadena, Highland Park to Hermosa....people are people, whether they are gangbangers and grandmas. But the reality is that there are some places where you have to watch your back and your stuff a lot more than other places. I'm not arguing that people should avoid SW because of the area where it's located; after all Loyola and USC are also in some tough neighborhoods as well.

Although any neighborhood has it's perks, and perhaps the area around SW could slowly changing for the better, it's still not Pleasantville USA. Koreatown is not a safe place at night, people get killed and attacked in MacArthur Park (as well as slang crack and a myriad of other drugs out there) but you don't always hear about it on the news. USC has a strong campus police force that patrols several blocks around the university and the off campus apartments. Loyola is like a one block concrete compound, so once you get inside, you have little to worry about. SW sits alongside many other office buildings, and outside of the parking lot, your security rests on the LAPD - Rampart Division. Whooo! (and I mean that very sarcastically).

Anyways, I do agree with you on one thing- SW is located in a gorgeous building. I believe they filmed parts of The Aviator there....

[wannaB1L]

you know I didn't want to point out your mispelling but I could not help myself. I really should not have since I am a relatively poor speller for someone with so much education- but at least my grammer is A-1.

[pop_tort]

you know I didn't want to point out your mispelling but I could not help myself.

Awww yea! Let the hypercritical and condescending nastiness begin!!

You know, I didn't want to point out that you misspelled 'mispelling' - but just like you, I could not help myself.

wannaB1L, you're going to fit right in with the "cool" kids in law school. Perhaps together, we can give people two more reasons to hate lawyers. Best of luck to you, my friend. 

[wannaB1L]

you know I didn't want to point out your mispelling but I could not help myself.

Awww yea! Let the hypercritical and condescending nastiness begin!!

You know, I didn't want to point out that you misspelled 'mispelling' - but just like you, I could not help myself.

wannaB1L, you're going to fit right in with the "cool" kids in law school. Perhaps together, we can give people two more reasons to hate lawyers. Best of luck to you, my friend. 

I don't even know how to repond. Is it a compliment or an insult? It does not matter, and I bid you fair winds and Godspeed young lad.