Life As An Associate

[Rudy Huckleberry]

Gov't is boring and slow. Everyone seems bored. I need just a little intensity, excitement, something!

[dbgirl]

I'd never work big law, I have always intended on working for a small firm (less than 10 attys) for 3-5 yrs and then throw out my own shingle (though if I enjoy where I work, I'll stay).

This is what I've begun to think about - if I go into civil litigation (I'm still strongly considering criminal law).
The more I get to know solo practioners the more attractive it seems. I don't like the idea of feast or famine - the idea of not having a steady salary makes me a bit nervous, but I really like the idea of controlling my environment.

[dbgirl]

you are showing your ignorance

If you do manage to work in the private sector you'll hear quite a few comparisons of government lawyers to sporting maneuvers. The most common one I hear is from golf "I've got another fed to tee up tomorrow," but baseball (something to do with a homerun) and basketball (something slam-dunk) are pretty close seconds. Make a few friends of firm partners, and you’ll eventually hear something along these lines.

The basic equation is undeniable. A law firm has its pick of the best people. It will pay them highly and work them as long as it takes to reach the goals of their clients. Resources for law firms and their clients are virtually infinite, and competition is almost always intense.

Comparatively, the government gets less able people willing to work for fewer dollars who are often tasked with more than they can be expected to competently deal with. Their client doesn’t demand as much from them, and their limits on working hours are often much higher.

Some of the finest lawyers I know are government lawyers.  Not everyone finds big law appealing.
I like the idea that I could, oh, I don't know, have Christmas off. Or, perhaps take a summer vacation.
And, given the fact that I am chronically ill I don't think I want to work 24/7. 

[pikey]

I would like to work for a bank in either trusts or real estate (or maybe even general counsel).  The problem is that they all ask for experienced lawyers.  If anyone knows a good way to get there without working BigLaw for a few years please let me know. 

[THE BLUE SWEATER]

I mean fed jobs start at over 100k.

I don't know what fed jobs you're looking at...

dont get sucked in ...i almost did this guy is either a clown or flaming

I am neither please refer to entry level DOJ jobs (1-2 years) listed below that I pulled directly off their site. Yes the Salary is below 100k but with COLA (cost of living allowance and benefits) it s easily a 100k salary. This depends on where in the country you are. If you are in DC it will push you over 100k. When you go up 1 or 2 GS levels it is easiily over 100k.

If you have previously applied for the GS-14 attorney vacancy in July 2006, at the Consolidated Legal Center, Miami, Florida, and/or the GS-12/13 attorney vacancy in June 2006, at the Consolidated Legal Center, Coleman, Florida, and are interested in applying for this position, you need not submit another application, verbal notification is sufficient.

About the Office: The legal practice at the Consolidated Legal Center (CLC) covers a wide variety of issues focusing on correctional law and litigation, either through administrative or litigation channels and includes such matters as inmates’ reasonable access to the courts (through access to legal materials, legal correspondence, and attorney-client visits), conditions of confinement, medical care, diet and religious accommodations, housing assignments, hygiene and sanitation, and discipline.

Responsibilities and Opportunity Offered: The position includes being involved in the management of a legal office that oversees the legal operations associated with the following five correctional institutions: Federal Prison Camp, Pensacola, Florida; Federal Correctional Institution, Marianna, Florida; Federal Correctional Institution, Tallahassee, Florida; Federal Correctional Institution, Miami, Florida; and Federal Detention Center, Miami, Florida. The incumbent will be expected to provide advice and guidance to all levels of staff at these correctional facilities, including members of the Executive staff. The incumbent will also be expected to communicate with defense attorneys, prosecutors, federal courts, the private bar, and agency officials. The incumbent will need to develop a thorough knowledge of all aspects of BOP policy and practice as he/she may be required to appear in District Court on short notice to explain and advocate the agency's rationale for its correctional management decisions.

Qualifications: Required qualifications: Interested parties must possess a J.D. degree, be an active member of the bar (any jurisdiction), and have at least 1 year post-J.D. experience.

Preferred qualifications: Prior experience in correctional law is highly desired, though not required.

Travel: Travel is not normally required.

Salary Information: Current salary and years of experience will determine the appropriate salary levels. The possible salary range, including locality pay adjustments, is GS-12 ($65,236 to $84,804) to GS-13 ($77,576 to $100,845).

Location: Miami, Florida

Relocation Expenses: Not authorized.

Submission Process and Deadline Date: Applicants must submit a resume or current OF-612 (Optional Application for Federal Employment), a cover letter (highlighting relevant experience) and a writing sample by July 21, 2006 to:



This position is open until filled, but no later than July 25, 2006.

[THE BLUE SWEATER]

Your first promotion to GS-14, even without time i grade, will easily put you over 100k.

[THE BLUE SWEATER]

If you hang around for two years and get this GS-15 position you are making above 120 (you will have time in grade and will likely have moved 1 GS grade up the lader. Is the extra 30-50k at a firm really worth losing 30 days paid vacation which you are usually forced to take. (Yes I was forced to use my leave days once). Or coming home at night? As far as interesting work MO...Understaffed means there are fewer people to handle the real work. That tells me I will be doing more of it. The government can afford for you to be a glorified paralegal as sands said. They need you to be a lawyer

Anyways bottom line you can make 100k at the DOJ or any ohter federal attorneys office as they are on the same pay system. If not your first year defenitly in your first or third. Most of there mid level jobs are filled in house. Check this out with 2 years experience.

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
CRIMINAL DIVISION
ASSET FORFEITURE AND MONEY LAUNDERING SECTION
TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-905-13/14/15
06-CRM-AFMLS-024


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About the Office: The Criminal Division of the U.S. Department of Justice, is seeking an experienced attorney to fill a position in the International Programs Unit of the Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section in Washington, D.C.

The Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section investigates and prosecutes complex money laundering and asset forfeiture cases and provides support on asset forfeiture and money laundering issues to each of the 93 United States Attorneys’ offices and the component agencies.

Responsibilities and
Opportunity Offered: The incumbent’s responsibilities will include:

Provide case support and legal advice to AUSAs and foreign officials in money laundering and asset forfeiture investigations and proceedings and on other related matters with international sensitivities;

Handle litigation relating to the execution of incoming requests from foreign officials that will require the filing of restraining order applications and applications to enforce foreign judgments as well as litigation in conjunction with the litigation unit of AFMLS and US Attorneys Offices relating to the forfeiture of assets beyond U.S. borders;

Provide technical assistance to foreign governments and international organizations on the drafting and implementation of money laundering and asset forfeiture legislation;

Assist in the development of USG policy in international forfeiture and money laundering matters through participation on inter-agency working groups and international organizations and bodies;

Provide international money laundering and asset forfeiture training to domestic and foreign law enforcement; and

Participate in negotiations and consultations with foreign governments concerning forfeiture cooperation and international asset sharing.
Qualifications:Excellent academic credentials; federal criminal litigation experience; diplomatic experience or experience with public international organizations, strong advocacy and legal writing skills; sound judgment; excellent interpersonal, public speaking and diplomatic skills; and a demonstrated commitment to public service.
Required qualifications: Interested applicants must possess a J.D. degree, be duly licensed and authorized to practice as an attorney under the laws of any State, territory of the United States, or the District of Columbia, and have at least two (2) years post J.D. experience. Applicants must be an active member of the bar in good standing.

Familiarity with money laundering and asset forfeiture law and international criminal law is highly desired.

Proficiency in a foreign language is strongly desired.

Travel: Routine travel will be required for conferences and litigation work throughout the United States. Foreign travel is also required.

Salary Information: Current salary and years of experience determine the appropriate salary level. The possible range for a GS-13 position is $77,353 to $100,554 a GS-14 position is $91,407 To $118,828 and a GS-15 position is $107,521 to $139,774 per annum. (See OPM’s Web page at www.opm.gov/oca/payrates/index.htm.)

Location: Washington, D.C.

Relocation Expenses: Relocation expenses are not authorized.

Application Process
and Deadline Date: Applicants must submit a cover letter (highlighting relevant experience), a detailed resume or OF-612 (Optional Application for Federal Employment) or SF-171 (Application for Federal Employment) and a current performance evaluation, if applicable.
Applicants need not submit a separate application for each position. Please indicate on your application for which position(s) you would like to be considered. Please forward all required documents to:


U.S. Department of Justice
1400 New York Ave. NW,
Criminal Division,
Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section
Bond Building, Suite 10100
Washington, DC 20530
ATTN: Dace Krastkalns, Administrative Officer

If you prefer to fax your documents, you can do so at (202) 514-5522. All applications must be received by July 27, 2006. Applications received after that date will not be considered.

Internet Sites: This and other attorney vacancy announcements can be found at http://10.173.2.12/oarm/attvacancies.html

For more information about the Criminal Division and the Counterterrorism Section, visit the Criminal Division Web page at: http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/criminal-home.html

Department Policies: The U.S. Department of Justice is an Equal Opportunity/Reasonable Accommodation Employer. It is the policy of the Department to achieve a drug-free workplace, and the person selected will be required to pass a drug test to screen for illegal drug use. Employment is also contingent upon the satisfactory completion of a background investigation adjudicated by the Department of Justice.

The Department of Justice welcomes and encourages applications from persons with physical and mental disabilities and will reasonably accommodate the needs of those persons. The Department is firmly committed to satisfying its affirmative obligations under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, to ensure that persons with disabilities have every opportunity to be hired and advanced.

 

[pikey]

Now back to my question:

I would like to work for a bank in either trusts or real estate (or maybe even general counsel).  The problem is that they all ask for experienced lawyers.  If anyone knows a good way to get there without working BigLaw for a few years please let me know. 

[Freak]

I'd never work big law, I have always intended on working for a small firm (less than 10 attys) for 3-5 yrs and then throw out my own shingle (though if I enjoy where I work, I'll stay).

This is what I've begun to think about - if I go into civil litigation (I'm still strongly considering criminal law).
The more I get to know solo practioners the more attractive it seems. I don't like the idea of feast or famine - the idea of not having a steady salary makes me a bit nervous, but I really like the idea of controlling my environment.

It's even easier to go solo in criminal law, you'll have no shortage of clients. I personally detest criminal law, I don't want to deal with scum even to prosecute them.

[Freak]

Now back to my question:

I would like to work for a bank in either trusts or real estate (or maybe even general counsel).  The problem is that they all ask for experienced lawyers.  If anyone knows a good way to get there without working BigLaw for a few years please let me know. 

Experience, is experience, regardless if it's with biglaw. However, if you wish to work in a big city, the banks will want biglaw experience. Perhaps try working in a smaller city for a few years, then work for a bank in a smaller city which will give you experience to work for a bank, in a larger city.