Law School Discussion

1L Questions About How Law School Really Works...

jacy85

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Re: 1L Questions About How Law School Really Works...
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2006, 03:14:23 PM »
Law school is law school.  The explanation you've given in your question is about as good as any 2 or 3L will likely be able to give you.  What you seem to want to know is what everyone has to experience and/or figure out on their own.

The one thing I'll suggest since you brought it up is this:  you will not be "breezing through" anything anymore.  The worst mistake you can make is underestimating what you need to do to succeed.  Many people who went out every Thursday and Friday night in my class were the ones heard complaining that they didn't do as well as they'd like.  Yes, you have to balance everything, but law school IS NOT undergrad.

You seem to have taken that advice to heart, though, so I'm sure the warning is unnecessary. 

Re: 1L Questions About How Law School Really Works...
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2006, 04:08:08 PM »
Law school is law school.  The explanation you've given in your question is about as good as any 2 or 3L will likely be able to give you.  What you seem to want to know is what everyone has to experience and/or figure out on their own.

The one thing I'll suggest since you brought it up is this:  you will not be "breezing through" anything anymore.  The worst mistake you can make is underestimating what you need to do to succeed.  Many people who went out every Thursday and Friday night in my class were the ones heard complaining that they didn't do as well as they'd like.  Yes, you have to balance everything, but law school IS NOT undergrad.

You seem to have taken that advice to heart, though, so I'm sure the warning is unnecessary. 


Agreed. But (disclaimer - I'm not in law school yet) I've also heard that overloading yourself with studying doesn't improve your grades also. Especially since a lot of people say there isn't a relationship between the amount of studying one does & how well they do in law school. You need to find a middle ground betwen partying every night & spending every minute of the day studying.

Autumn

Re: 1L Questions About How Law School Really Works...
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2006, 06:33:08 PM »
I'm just happy I don't have to be in lab 7:30 am- 6:30 pm like I did in undergrad.

But I am really clueless and scared about law school, nonetheless.


it appears that my earliest class is at 830 mon and wed.  my latest class gets out at either 2 or 3, depending on the section.  fridays i'm done by 11, i believe.

your shades look hot with those pouty lips, btw


Thanks. AND thank goodness for no labs in law school!  8)

GreyStreet

Re: 1L Questions About How Law School Really Works...
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2006, 07:27:11 PM »

Oh man, I love reading a post like this one.  Classic example of someone who breezed through undergrad with an easy major, and now finally realizes he needs to do some actual independent thinking in school.  You should have chosen engineering as a major, it forces you to think deeply and examine all the possible scenarios.  I did engineering, and I have no question about my capabilities of succeeding this fall.  I imagine for me LS will actually be easier than undergrad.  Good luck my man, you are in for a wake up call.  Who knows, hopefully before the end of your first year, you'll learn how to think on your own rather than regurgitating facts from a text book and getting that easy A. 

I dont like this post.

Alamo

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Re: 1L Questions About How Law School Really Works...
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2006, 06:52:30 AM »

Oh man, I love reading a post like this one.  Classic example of someone who breezed through undergrad with an easy major, and now finally realizes he needs to do some actual independent thinking in school.  You should have chosen engineering as a major, it forces you to think deeply and examine all the possible scenarios.  I did engineering, and I have no question about my capabilities of succeeding this fall.  I imagine for me LS will actually be easier than undergrad.  Good luck my man, you are in for a wake up call.  Who knows, hopefully before the end of your first year, you'll learn how to think on your own rather than regurgitating facts from a text book and getting that easy A. 

I dont like this post.

Not even his "You should have chosen engineering as a major" advice?  I mean, that's universally applicable to everyone, right?  People who want to go to law school shouldn't worry about whether they're actually interested in or suited for engineering, they should just get it so that they will be forced to "think deeply."  Had I done so, I would have "no question about my capabilities of succeeding" in law school.

Rico, where were you when I was a high school senior?  You could've prevented my life from becoming a complete and total failure.

Re: 1L Questions About How Law School Really Works...
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2006, 07:42:06 AM »
Law school is law school.  The explanation you've given in your question is about as good as any 2 or 3L will likely be able to give you.  What you seem to want to know is what everyone has to experience and/or figure out on their own.

The one thing I'll suggest since you brought it up is this:  you will not be "breezing through" anything anymore.  The worst mistake you can make is underestimating what you need to do to succeed.  Many people who went out every Thursday and Friday night in my class were the ones heard complaining that they didn't do as well as they'd like.  Yes, you have to balance everything, but law school IS NOT undergrad.

You seem to have taken that advice to heart, though, so I'm sure the warning is unnecessary. 


Agreed. But (disclaimer - I'm not in law school yet) I've also heard that overloading yourself with studying doesn't improve your grades also. Especially since a lot of people say there isn't a relationship between the amount of studying one does & how well they do in law school. You need to find a middle ground betwen partying every night & spending every minute of the day studying.


It's just not possible that there isn't a relationship between studying and performance.  Here's why:

Let's say you are in a class of 300 students, and everyone has the 5 same classes, all of which are graded (meaning none are pass/fail).  Given that most law schools operate on a certain curve, that would mean that in any given class, only 5-10% (approximate guess) of students will be given A's, a large portion B's and C's, a few D's, etc.  So, if in any given class your chances of getting an A, independent of study effort and based solely on the curve, is only 5-10%, then the chances of you receiving A's in say 3 classes is .10 x .10 x .10 which is .001.  So, what the really means is that the chances of any given student getting multiple A's is VERY small.  But, of course it happens....these are the people who are in the top of the class, right?

Well, given that there are people that get several A's per semester, how can this be explained?  It seems there are three possible explanations:

1) All other things being equal (i.e. study time), these people are just BETTER at law school.  They are smarter and more capable then everyone else.

2) These people work harder than everyone else, and their extra efforts pay off.

3) A combination of 1. and 2.

My guess is that it is a combination, that the people who rise to the top of the class do so b/c they are both particularly capable and particularly hardworking.  Now, to respond to the post quoted above, I do think there would have to be some sort of diminishing returns at some point of studying effort, but I just do not believe that " overloading yourself with studying doesn't improve your grades".


StepUpT0theMike

Re: 1L Questions About How Law School Really Works...
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2006, 08:10:19 AM »
It's just not possible that there isn't a relationship between studying and performance.  Here's why:

Let's say you are in a class of 300 students, and everyone has the 5 same classes, all of which are graded (meaning none are pass/fail).  Given that most law schools operate on a certain curve, that would mean that in any given class, only 5-10% (approximate guess) of students will be given A's, a large portion B's and C's, a few D's, etc.  So, if in any given class your chances of getting an A, independent of study effort and based solely on the curve, is only 5-10%, then the chances of you receiving A's in say 3 classes is .10 x .10 x .10 which is .001.  So, what the really means is that the chances of any given student getting multiple A's is VERY small.  But, of course it happens....these are the people who are in the top of the class, right?

Well, given that there are people that get several A's per semester, how can this be explained?  It seems there are three possible explanations:

1) All other things being equal (i.e. study time), these people are just BETTER at law school.  They are smarter and more capable then everyone else.

2) These people work harder than everyone else, and their extra efforts pay off.

3) A combination of 1. and 2.

My guess is that it is a combination, that the people who rise to the top of the class do so b/c they are both particularly capable and particularly hardworking.  Now, to respond to the post quoted above, I do think there would have to be some sort of diminishing returns at some point of studying effort, but I just do not believe that " overloading yourself with studying doesn't improve your grades".

I think you are correct in noting that the people at the very top of the class do not arrive there soley based on chance.  The same logic also most likely applies to those at the very bottom of the class.  However, because of the curve, there is usually only small grade differences between students in the middle 60% of the class.  Here is where most students I have talked to feel the random luck comes into play.  Basically, the work ethic and ability of the middle 60% probably has very little variance.  However, because of the curve, the grades of these students are much more stratified than their abilities would dictate.

Alamo

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Re: 1L Questions About How Law School Really Works...
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2006, 08:55:43 AM »
I think what Pinkybella meant to say is that there isn't a linear relationship between hours spent studying and performance on law school exams.

Person A can spend 50 hours a week studying, drive himself crazy, overload on minutia and freak out on exams.

Person B might spend 30 hours a week studying, maximize each hour of time, and ace exams.

But I don't think anyone can really argue that there's zero relationship between the amount of time spent studying and how well you do.

CousinRico

Re: 1L Questions About How Law School Really Works...
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2006, 12:02:17 PM »

Oh Wow!  What a response!  Just to stop everyone from worrying about me, I am actually not like this in real life.  I keep my thoughts to myself and my eyes open.  The point I am making is that the OP, like most law school students, don't know why they want to be a lawyer and what they are getting themselves into.  The OP is coming straight from undergrad, but as he admits, is clueless as to what to expect and how to approach it.  My question to him is why are you even going to law school?  Go get some work experience first and figure out if law is what you want to really do.  I mean it is a huge financial commitment that most 22 year olds, who have never had a full time job, even realize.  It is a huge time commitment, followed by hard work the likes of which most 22 year olds who "breezed through undergrad" don't know is about.  Hell, I am more than happy to surround myself in school with these "straight from undergrad" students who don't know what to expect and how to handle the pressures.  Law school is not a means to an end, but is rather a tool used to open up more doors than you can imagine.   Good luck to those who are going because there is nothing else to do, because they want to make good money, or because they want the prestige.  I hope when they finish and start practicing, they don't say to themselves "damn, law school was the biggest mistake of my life". 

Lionel Hutz

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Re: 1L Questions About How Law School Really Works...
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2006, 12:50:06 PM »
Average LSAT Scores for 14 Majors with More than 400 Students Taking the Exam

Physics/math 157.6
Philosophy/religion 156.0
Economics 155.3
International relations 155.1
Chemistry 154.5
Government/service 154.4
Anthropology/geography 154.1
History 154.0
English 153.7
Biology 153.6
Other social science 153.2
Engineering 152.7
Foreign languages 152.5
Finance 152.2
Computer science 152.2
Psychology 151.9
Accounting 151.8
Political science 151.6
Communication/arts 150.7
Marketing/real estate 150.0

I didn't even know there was such a thing as a real estate major. Wow.