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Author Topic: Stand up for the war  (Read 9000 times)

The ZAPINATOR

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Re: Stand up for the war
« Reply #110 on: August 17, 2004, 05:14:34 PM »
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jgruber

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Re: Stand up for the war
« Reply #111 on: August 17, 2004, 05:18:16 PM »
OK.  I'll accept your viewpoint.

I disagree.  I believe that without Bush and the others around him we would not have gone to war.  The people who created that picture probably agree with me.

The picture is saying that these people died in service to their country and Bush must bear a great deal of the responsibility.

Why does that cheapen their sacrifice?  It doesn't criticize them; it criticizes Bush.

PS

I am more afraid of terror now than I've ever been before


By the way, how do you know pacifism won't work?

 
Not trying to disassociate him from the war.  Trying to acknowledge that the war is bigger than any one person or thing.

People forget that despite Russia and France's opposition, there was a fairly large coalition willing to go in, that thought Hussein was a threat.  Clinton thought he was a threat.  Gore would've thought he was a threat.  Given a post-9/11 world and a general consensus that Hussein was a threat (rightly or wrongly) I find it very hard to call it "Bush's war".  This was a war for US, to protect US.  What part of "a nation that fails to deal with threats is a nation that will be attacked and seen as weak by its enemies" doesn't make sense to you?  Like someone else said, talking big but doing nothing will wear off quickly and we'd be seen as all bark, no bite.  Likewise, as someone else said, Woodrow Wilson was a failure, and his ideas failed then.  They didn't work then, they haven't worked since, and they won't work now.  Pacifism only works when your enemy isn't willing to kill you.  That is my philosophy, and tied in with a percieved threat, that's why I support the idea that it wasn't Bush's war, it was a war so that Jeffjoe won't have to live in terror.

Do you remember where you were on 9/11?  I sure do.

ZAP

Aonghus

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Re: Stand up for the war
« Reply #112 on: August 18, 2004, 03:52:45 AM »
Its too bad that you choose to be afraid.  I for one am happy that something is being done.  I put the life of one American ahead of the lives of a million of any other nation.  When Iraq is done, have no fear, we will move on to the next biggest threat.

As far as pacifism goes... the reason it doesnt work is the same reason that you need locks on your doors.  It is easier to steal than it is to produce, and as long as there isnt a mechanism to make the cost of stealing (killing, robbing, raping, etc) SO high that it by far outweighs the cost of producing, most people will steal.

It is the same with NGOs and Nations.

OK.  I'll accept your viewpoint.

I disagree.  I believe that without Bush and the others around him we would not have gone to war.  The people who created that picture probably agree with me.

The picture is saying that these people died in service to their country and Bush must bear a great deal of the responsibility.

Why does that cheapen their sacrifice?  It doesn't criticize them; it criticizes Bush.

PS

I am more afraid of terror now than I've ever been before


By the way, how do you know pacifism won't work?

 
Not trying to disassociate him from the war.  Trying to acknowledge that the war is bigger than any one person or thing.

People forget that despite Russia and France's opposition, there was a fairly large coalition willing to go in, that thought Hussein was a threat.  Clinton thought he was a threat.  Gore would've thought he was a threat.  Given a post-9/11 world and a general consensus that Hussein was a threat (rightly or wrongly) I find it very hard to call it "Bush's war".  This was a war for US, to protect US.  What part of "a nation that fails to deal with threats is a nation that will be attacked and seen as weak by its enemies" doesn't make sense to you?  Like someone else said, talking big but doing nothing will wear off quickly and we'd be seen as all bark, no bite.  Likewise, as someone else said, Woodrow Wilson was a failure, and his ideas failed then.  They didn't work then, they haven't worked since, and they won't work now.  Pacifism only works when your enemy isn't willing to kill you.  That is my philosophy, and tied in with a percieved threat, that's why I support the idea that it wasn't Bush's war, it was a war so that Jeffjoe won't have to live in terror.

Do you remember where you were on 9/11?  I sure do.

ZAP

jgruber

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Re: Stand up for the war
« Reply #113 on: August 18, 2004, 10:41:29 AM »
A, how do you know pacificism doesn't work?

Show me the case history.

And I think you self-esteem is incredible.  You're worth millions of other people?  You must have qualities you haven't shared with LSD