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Author Topic: Stand up for the war  (Read 8960 times)

Section Eight

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Re: Stand up for the war
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2004, 09:35:43 PM »
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eight, if someone believes in a cause but will not serve in that cause...what does that sa about their belief?

It says they have other issues in their life.  It says they may choose to not join the military because it is not a financially stable environment to take care of their family.  It says they may have a different life-calling that doesn't deter from their natural decision to choose to support something.  It says there are so many extenuating circumstances that may prevent them from being able to serve our country.

I used to think that one year military service commitments should be required of everyone after high school.  I believed they could avoid this commitment by taking a two semester military education course.  I thought this way because I wanted people to be more informed of our military and the sacrifices the military members make for our freedom.  I have since changed my views on this.  I have learned that I don't need everyone to understand because I do not do this for the individuals in our nation; I do this for the nation itself.  I don't need for them to die for something they don't believe in because it increases the chance they could cause someone who does believe in their service to die as well; I will die for this country because I do believe in it.

I do not want Michael Moore getting people to enlist into our military who truly do not want to.  The military means something dear to me; however, I know that isn't the case for everyone.

jgruber

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Re: Stand up for the war
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2004, 09:39:03 PM »
well, said.  I don't entirely agree, but I can respect it.

Quote
eight, if someone believes in a cause but will not serve in that cause...what does that sa about their belief?

It says they have other issues in their life.  It says they may choose to not join the military because it is not a financially stable environment to take care of their family.  It says they may have a different life-calling that doesn't deter from their natural decision to choose to support something.  It says there are so many extenuating circumstances that may prevent them from being able to serve our country.

I used to think that one year military service commitments should be required of everyone after high school.  I believed they could avoid this commitment by taking a two semester military education course.  I thought this way because I wanted people to be more informed of our military and the sacrifices the military members make for our freedom.  I have since changed my views on this.  I have learned that I don't need everyone to understand because I do not do this for the individuals in our nation; I do this for the nation itself.  I don't need for them to die for something they don't believe in because it increases the chance they could cause someone who does believe in their service to die as well; I will die for this country because I do believe in it.

I do not want Michael Moore getting people to enlist into our military who truly do not want to.  The military means something dear to me; however, I know that isn't the case for everyone.


Aonghus

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Re: Stand up for the war
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2004, 09:39:07 PM »
I think alot of people DO see it that way dude.  We have two choices right now, rule the world, or retire from it.  I personally would have us retire from it, but if we are going to stay engaged, we need to make sure that things go well.  

Look at Tillman... he is just an example... I live less than a mile from the gate at Pendleton... they are still training marines, even in the middle of a 'not real war'.  Im just sorry that I missed my window.  I dont follow orders without a very clear sense of purpose, and wouldnt have made it in the military in peace time, so I never went.  Things are different now.

I dont think that you would find so many people in WWII signing up as did if the draft wasnt in effect.  Many people wanted to stay out of it, and considering we forced the Japanese to do something, we could have stayed out quite easily.

it is amazing how the biggest chicken hawks (not includingsect 8 or ahongus) are always the first to say they have knee problems or asthma, or are to old or this or that but want the US to send SOMEONE ELSE.  bottom line is that if this were a real war with real motivations everyone and their momma would be signing up to go to the military to fight in iraq...look at WWII

jrhc1210

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Re: Stand up for the war
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2004, 09:42:03 PM »
I think alot of people DO see it that way dude.  We have two choices right now, rule the world, or retire from it.  I personally would have us retire from it, but if we are going to stay engaged, we need to make sure that things go well. 


Option 3 - American hegemony through soft power and institutional means. Along the lines of Wilsonianism. See Joseph Nye's works as an example.

TrojanChispas

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Re: Stand up for the war
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2004, 09:45:18 PM »
if people have other priorities than fighting for their war then THEY CANT JUSTIFY SOMEONE DYING IN THAT WAR.

the poeple that created vietnam werent the ones that made sacrifices in it.

people will swear up and down that the war was IMMEDIATELY NECESSARY, but they arent willing to do it.  to me, that means that it is NOT THAT NECESSSARY because if it was they would be the first to go.

if the US is to maintain its integrity (you military people know the meaning of that word) and core values it must ONLY wage war as a LAST resort.
Arab Majority May Not Stay Forever Silent
http://www.nysun.com/article/36110?page_no=1

Aonghus

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Re: Stand up for the war
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2004, 09:46:06 PM »
BZZZZ... thanks for playing... requires us to give up our own sovereignty in small increments.  I would never agree to that.

Wilson was a dreamer... and a complete failure..


I think alot of people DO see it that way dude.  We have two choices right now, rule the world, or retire from it.  I personally would have us retire from it, but if we are going to stay engaged, we need to make sure that things go well. 


Option 3 - American hegemony through soft power and institutional means. Along the lines of Wilsonianism. See Joseph Nye's works as an example.

nekko

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Re: Stand up for the war
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2004, 09:46:41 PM »
The military isn't for everyone. I thought a lot of aspects of the military were great others not so much, but even people who are really supportive of the military I think would do poorly in a military situation. Moving on to the specifics though

Quote
if someone believes in a cause but will not serve in that cause...what does that sa about their belief?
That's not really a fair statement though is it? I think more should be done to help the poor but is my belief less valid since instead of donating money to a worthy cause to help those in need I decide to buy a new (and perhaps not necessary) TV? Look at John Kerry. He combined with his wife has a net worth in the hundreds of millions if not billions. Is his rhetoric and belief about helping others invalidated because he has so much personal wealth which does not go to more philanthropic causes? These are examples are just situations where the level of hardship required is fairly minmal let alone that which is required by the military.

If I believe crime needs to be fought and think that police must stop bank robbers is my belief weak since I am not joining the police?

Also for many, what would joining the military really add to "the cause"? Most folks would get stuck at some desk job which while important would exactly be contributing that much to the belief in the war in Iraq one way or the other. Serving in Guam for instance while a valuable service wouldn't really validate one's belief in the Iraq war would it?

 

Aonghus

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Re: Stand up for the war
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2004, 09:50:01 PM »
If they would take me, Id figure out a way to get passed the physical and go (thatd be a major f-ing chore right there).  I am not the only one.  I know many who would.  Maybe you are just hanging with the wrong people.

since we do live in a society with a volunteer service, why not just honor those who have chosen to make their lives one of sacrifice so that others dont have to?

When people start flying planes into our skyscrapers, it is necessary to make sure we are on the offense instead of trying to play whackamole.

if people have other priorities than fighting for their war then THEY CANT JUSTIFY SOMEONE DYING IN THAT WAR.

the poeple that created vietnam werent the ones that made sacrifices in it.

people will swear up and down that the war was IMMEDIATELY NECESSARY, but they arent willing to do it.  to me, that means that it is NOT THAT NECESSSARY because if it was they would be the first to go.

if the US is to maintain its integrity (you military people know the meaning of that word) and core values it must ONLY wage war as a LAST resort.

jgruber

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Re: Stand up for the war
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2004, 09:51:55 PM »
But to ask someone to kill and die for what you believe in seems substantially different.

The military isn't for everyone. I thought a lot of aspects of the military were great others not so much, but even people who are really supportive of the military I think would do poorly in a military situation. Moving on to the specifics though

Quote
if someone believes in a cause but will not serve in that cause...what does that sa about their belief?
That's not really a fair statement though is it? I think more should be done to help the poor but is my belief less valid since instead of donating money to a worthy cause to help those in need I decide to buy a new (and perhaps not necessary) TV? Look at John Kerry. He combined with his wife has a net worth in the hundreds of millions if not billions. Is his rhetoric and belief about helping others invalidated because he has so much personal wealth which does not go to more philanthropic causes? These are examples are just situations where the level of hardship required is fairly minmal let alone that which is required by the military.

If I believe crime needs to be fought and think that police must stop bank robbers is my belief weak since I am not joining the police?

Also for many, what would joining the military really add to "the cause"? Most folks would get stuck at some desk job which while important would exactly be contributing that much to the belief in the war in Iraq one way or the other. Serving in Guam for instance while a valuable service wouldn't really validate one's belief in the Iraq war would it?

 

Ginatio

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Re: Stand up for the war
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2004, 09:52:35 PM »
I'm a lover, not a fighter.

If you feel the war is just and it should be fought and fought by us, why are you going to law school and not into the military?