Law School Discussion

Fake Abortion Service Shut Down in Louisiana

Re: Fake Abortion Service Shut Down in Louisiana
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2004, 07:26:45 PM »
To be honest, I don't believe Mr. Graham has the proper moral groundwork to judge other people's values and beliefs.  Including going so far as to take their choices away from them, but then who am I to judge him, I want to be lawyer.   ;D

The abortion fraud part is really bad, but how did he end up on probation for throwing out the condoms?  Did he violate a specific law (thou shalt not throw away government condoms)? Was it just general theft?

I found a NY Times article that says:

In 2002, Mr. Graham enrolled in the state's anti-AIDS condom distribution program, picked up 30,000 free condoms and discarded them. He pleaded guilty to theft and is on probation.

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Re: Fake Abortion Service Shut Down in Louisiana
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2004, 10:21:32 PM »
I too am against abortion, but he used wrong means to a good end.  The ends never justify the means they must justify themselves.  It's a hard rule to live by and I often fail, but it's right.  Risk and reward is different, yet related, and he may have confused the two.

Re: Fake Abortion Service Shut Down in Louisiana
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2004, 08:48:41 AM »
edit

Ginatio

Re: Fake Abortion Service Shut Down in Louisiana
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2004, 08:55:00 AM »
I don't see how the principle of opposing an unjust law applies here. It seems that this guy was opposing ideological freedom by forcing his own on unsuspecting women. He's not opposing an unjust law... he's not opposing *any* law...

I don't agree with this person's belief on abortion --  I'm a confused mess there -- but I agree with the principle of opposing an unjust law.

After all Ghandi and MLK did that and they are my heros.

There is a big difference.  Ghandi and MLK did not hide their opposition through fraud.  They openly violated the law and were ready to accept their punishment for doing so.







jgruber

Re: Fake Abortion Service Shut Down in Louisiana
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2004, 09:12:40 AM »
He was opposing the law that allows abortion,which for some is an unjust law.

He did it by subterfuge, which makes it dishonorable in my opinion

I don't see how the principle of opposing an unjust law applies here. It seems that this guy was opposing ideological freedom by forcing his own on unsuspecting women. He's not opposing an unjust law... he's not opposing *any* law...

I don't agree with this person's belief on abortion --  I'm a confused mess there -- but I agree with the principle of opposing an unjust law.

After all Ghandi and MLK did that and they are my heros.

There is a big difference.  Ghandi and MLK did not hide their opposition through fraud.  They openly violated the law and were ready to accept their punishment for doing so.







Ginatio

Re: Fake Abortion Service Shut Down in Louisiana
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2004, 09:17:05 AM »
but is there a law that ALLOWS abortion? I always thought it was more a matter of there being the lack of a law DISallowing abortion

He was opposing the law that allows abortion,which for some is an unjust law.

He did it by subterfuge, which makes it dishonorable in my opinion

I don't see how the principle of opposing an unjust law applies here. It seems that this guy was opposing ideological freedom by forcing his own on unsuspecting women. He's not opposing an unjust law... he's not opposing *any* law...

I don't agree with this person's belief on abortion --  I'm a confused mess there -- but I agree with the principle of opposing an unjust law.

After all Ghandi and MLK did that and they are my heros.

There is a big difference.  Ghandi and MLK did not hide their opposition through fraud.  They openly violated the law and were ready to accept their punishment for doing so.







jgruber

Re: Fake Abortion Service Shut Down in Louisiana
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2004, 09:18:36 AM »
Is there a statute?  I dunno.

Is there law?  Yes.

But you get the idea.

but is there a law that ALLOWS abortion? I always thought it was more a matter of there being the lack of a law DISallowing abortion

He was opposing the law that allows abortion,which for some is an unjust law.

He did it by subterfuge, which makes it dishonorable in my opinion

I don't see how the principle of opposing an unjust law applies here. It seems that this guy was opposing ideological freedom by forcing his own on unsuspecting women. He's not opposing an unjust law... he's not opposing *any* law...

I don't agree with this person's belief on abortion --  I'm a confused mess there -- but I agree with the principle of opposing an unjust law.

After all Ghandi and MLK did that and they are my heros.

There is a big difference.  Ghandi and MLK did not hide their opposition through fraud.  They openly violated the law and were ready to accept their punishment for doing so.







Ginatio

Re: Fake Abortion Service Shut Down in Louisiana
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2004, 09:19:42 AM »
can you find a reference, please?

Is there a statute?  I dunno.

Is there law?  Yes.

But you get the idea.

but is there a law that ALLOWS abortion? I always thought it was more a matter of there being the lack of a law DISallowing abortion

He was opposing the law that allows abortion,which for some is an unjust law.

He did it by subterfuge, which makes it dishonorable in my opinion

I don't see how the principle of opposing an unjust law applies here. It seems that this guy was opposing ideological freedom by forcing his own on unsuspecting women. He's not opposing an unjust law... he's not opposing *any* law...

I don't agree with this person's belief on abortion --  I'm a confused mess there -- but I agree with the principle of opposing an unjust law.

After all Ghandi and MLK did that and they are my heros.

There is a big difference.  Ghandi and MLK did not hide their opposition through fraud.  They openly violated the law and were ready to accept their punishment for doing so.







jgruber

Re: Fake Abortion Service Shut Down in Louisiana
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2004, 09:21:18 AM »
Roe v. Wade

I think I'm missing your point.

can you find a reference, please?


Ginatio

Re: Fake Abortion Service Shut Down in Louisiana
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2004, 09:23:03 AM »
Roe v. Wade didn't enact a law allowing abortions, per se. it's up to congress or the states to enact law.

I've never actually read the case, but I always thought Roe v. Wade allowed people to *get* abortions and doctors to give them without fear of being accused of murder. I dunno. I'm probably wrong.

Roe v. Wade

I think I'm missing your point.

can you find a reference, please?