Shameful and Frightening: GOP takes measures to supress Black Vote...

[nathanielmark]

i thought so too, finally someone gets my jokes.

HAHA!!  OK, that comeback was a thing of beauty, I give you a 10.0

[jgruber]

Oh.  I didn't get the joke, too close to reality for me.

[Bisquick]

Since I have to do work now anyway, I'll even stop arguing and stand silent in respect to a superior wit.

Its OK jeffjoe, remember CNN predicted Tampa, too.

[The ZAPINATOR]

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[jgruber]

In other words, you have to have proof that it is possible that politicians might be crooked?

I don't keep an open mind about things I have no reason to suspect.  My mind opens as I see evidence.  I don't live in a perennial state of open-mindedness toward every new conspiracy theory.

ZAP

[The ZAPINATOR]

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[jgruber]

You're asking for proof that it is possible.

In other words you won't consider the possiblity of misdeeds until there is some proof.

All I asked was that you keep an open mind.  Believe it is possible they did not thing wrong and that it is possible that they did something wrong.

That is a neutral stance that allows for all possibilities.

But if you prefer not to do that....


PS - My view of politicians does not come from school books or newspapers or TV.  Been there; done that.

Yes.  I have to have proof that ANY individual is crooked before I point my finger, that's NEVER my assumption level going in.  I know a lot of politicians personally.  I can tell you exactly who's crooked and who's not out of that list; I can name names (although I won't unless you're trying to figure out who to vote for in Tennessee, then I will do so on a confidential basis).  I have reasons to believe certain ones are crooked.  But that's absolutely not my assumption level about anyone, politician or not.  Bottom line, Jeffjoe, is that politicians are human beings just like you are.  Most of them are good people called to civic duty.  They're not perennially looking for a way to screw people.  For a select few, it's all about power and power alone.  For a select few it's all about helping people and making good policy.  Most fall in the middle, but in the middle tending toward wanting to make this country/their state/their local area a better place to live.  And I respect them for that.  I hope one day I'll be doing what they're doing.  And yes, I do expect for people to assume that I'm not trying to screw them.  That's just offensive for that to perennially be the assumption level.

You're only deluding yourself if you automatically assume crookedness and conspiracy.  Crookedness on a large scale is actually more the exception than the rule, and conspiracies are really hard to pull off and keep under wraps.  Do you think the press would give Bush a free ride if he was behind half the things you accuse him of?  No way.  That's why it makes news when there is a huge political scandal like Watergate; it's not an everyday occurrence.  Maybe scandal is more prevalent than in some other professions (mostly because we put our leaders under a microscope, and that's as it should be), but not rampant by any means.  A lot of people who have these caricatured ideas of what politics and politicians are like would be very surprised if they spent a year immersed in the culture of politics.  Chances are, you'd find it deathly dull after all your far-flung fantasies of corruption around every corner.

ZAP 

[Bman]

This is a vile column. Herbert hears some story through the grapevine of police officers (in plain clothes) questioning several volunteers about allegations of voter fraud. The allegation of voter fraud may be erroneous. It may not be. But Herbert has no evidence to back up his contention that the investigation is anything other than proper (he, of course, uses the spokesman's refusal to provide him with details of the confidential investigation as implied evidence that something is afoot). Herbert's entire "proof" is as follows:

1. The Orlando League of Voters has been successful mobilizing black voters in the past.
2. Some members of the League have been questioned by the police.

Therefore, ipso facto, "The long and ugly tradition of suppressing the black vote is alive and thriving in the Sunshine State."

This column is embarrassing. But it taps into the pre-rehearsed victim mentality of many. Even if Bush wins by ten points in Florida this time around (unlikely, but certainly possible), I have no doubt that we'll be hearing about racist cops being the cause of his victory.

[The ZAPINATOR]

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[jgruber]

Why won't you just accept that you should keep an open mind?

It's always possible that someone's doing something wrong at any given moment.  Yet, why automatically assume the worst?  When there's no evidence, why float meaningless possibilities?  I mean, I could say that Jeffjoe's a serial killer.  You could ask me why I think that.  I'd then say, because it's possible.  Just keep an open mind.  It's possible that he is and it's possible that he's not.  Sure, it's technically possible.  But without any proof, why would I even go there in the first place?  What's the point?  It's just annoying.  Why should I assume that Jeffjoe's a serial killer when there's no evidence to indicate that? 

The reason I take issue with your theories is that they come from the same guy who spends his time making up these kinds of threads:

Rummie strikes again. Does it make a difference?
Is Bush, Inc.trying to destroy the judiciary?
Dubya flip flopping
Kerry flip flopping
Johnson - Bush little change in 40 years
No one died when Clinton lied...
Pentagon says foreign detainees have no right to lawyers
Are terrorists playing us?
Red letter days in American politics
Bush always looking for new ways to attack America
Who is the terrorist?
Town is full of thieves
Bush afraid of the courts?
Happy Birthday American Censorship
Bush says his judicial appointments are being blocked by Democrats
Left-wing NYT poll says more Americans say Iraq was a mistake
Dubya and the NAACP
The Common Plan to Violate the Geneva Conventions
LAWLESSNESS IN IRAQ AND THE FAILURE OF UNILATERALISM
Why are we still in Iraq?e
(and many more... you get the point)

Constant negativity.  Jeffjoe, it's not healthy for you and I don't know that it's necessarily helpful for others.  If there's a hot-button issue, sure, get some discussion going.  But the constant lens of negativity, regardless of the topic, tells me somehow you're not a very happy person.  Maybe I'm off base with that, but you strike me as a paranoid grump more than as an independent thinker.  I don't mean that as a personal insult, but I'm calling it as I see it.  I mean, my dad can be a paranoid grump at times too and I love him regardless, but that doesn't mean its good for your mental health to look at everything negatively.  And I don't think it brings you one iota closer to the truth 95% of the time... it just misleads you in a different direction.

ZAP