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jballer

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Re: Olmert May Be Alright After All: All-Out War Accepted
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2006, 03:52:49 AM »
You're 100% right AJ.  Hezbollah is exactly a snake in the grass...well put.  But Israel surely knows this.  Their attacks on Lebanon was more of revenge and a message I think (in addition to trying to fence Hezbollah/the captured soldiers troops in).  I guess the next few days will provide an answer.  If they continue bombing Lebanon and push so hard that the Lebanese Army gets involved (so far they have only used anti-aircrat weapons against Israeli jets), then they will be not solving the real problem which is Syria and Iran (more Iran than Syria). Everyone says they will continue hitting Lebanon hard, but I feel (although it may be wishful thinking) that the attacks will subside.  I hope Israel does the right thing and that the international community will solve this problem without more people dying.  There is no party that is without blame in this situation...Hezbollah, Syria, Iran, the Palestinians, Lebanon and yes Israel and the US as well.  Varying degrees of blame yes, but there are a whole lot of things we haven't discussed that led to this conflict.  You cannot simply view the situation starting from what happened in Gaza or at the Lebanese Israeli border.  You have to view everything within the context of everything else if you are truly to understand what each side is feeling and thinking.  All right too much rambling from me...good night and it has been a pleasure to debate/discuss with you two. I pray to the Lord for peace and I hope you do as well. 

@#$%, Fire, and Damnation.

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Re: Olmert May Be Alright After All: All-Out War Accepted
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2006, 04:08:49 AM »
All right too much rambling from me...good night and it has been a pleasure to debate/discuss with you two. I pray to the Lord for peace and I hope you do as well. 

Yes.  Glad to hear this.  Its rare on this board to ever hear anyone invoke the name of the Lord.

"snake in the back yard" ha...I'm tired at this point too.

I appreciate your input and your willingness to discuss.  You have obviously lived through this for years and you have a perspective I certainly couldn't have brought to this discussion.  I'll be watching events as they unfold as well and hoping Israeli troops get a hold on the offending element quickly...the most immediate part of it anyway.

Julie Fern

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Re: Olmert May Be Alright After All: All-Out War Accepted
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2006, 06:47:20 AM »
but, it also important to note that you moron.  lord told julie so.

tobias

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Re: Olmert May Be Alright After All: All-Out War Accepted
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2006, 07:46:26 AM »
I'm in Israel and because of the tension have been following all the news outlets I can. I haven't noticed a significant difference in coverage between the american news sources and the Israeli (hebrew and english), factually. Of course different sources are going to spin things differently, use different terminology that is bound to offend someone, but the news is pretty much equal and equally bad all around. Sure Haaretz and the JPost spin things differently, particularly in the editorials (although they have come closer together in recent years), but the news itself is largely the same. And also while the JPost is english only, the english Haaretz is mostly just translation.

Anyway. It's now being reported that Hezbollah likely has a limited number of rockets that could reach as far south as Beersheva (The negev is already dealing with the kassams (and the kassam strikes are becoming increasingly pernicious)).That includes the bulk of the population, including Jerusalem and Tel Aviv; God willing our worst fears will not be realized, and that IDF actions in Lebanon will brief and effective in dealing with the barrage on the second front. Such a strike would up the ante significantly, far more so than the rocket that landed in Haifa last night. Although the government expressed surprise, it has been known for a while that Haifa could potentially be in range. Such a development would make a ground offensive almost inevitable, and Israel could be back in the position it was throughout the 80s and 90s, a position that involved a lot of bloodshed but also a great deal of internal strife within the population here. I'm praying that this painful chapter will be very brief, and that the casualties on both sides will be limited. The possibility of opening a third front, necessary or otherwise, is a possibility that is almost horrifying to entertain.

Skeptic

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Re: Olmert May Be Alright After All: All-Out War Accepted
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2006, 01:45:01 PM »
a large majority in lebanon support hizbullah considering they are seen as the reason for why israel left southern lebanon in 2000.  Besides this, lebanese govt and a majority of lebanese people also support hizbullah for the reason that they are militarily stronger than the lebanese military itself.  so really hiz is a big part of lebanon...im sure many lebanese people wouldn't want them to leave..they have accomplished things lebanon alone couldn't

jballer

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Re: Olmert May Be Alright After All: All-Out War Accepted
« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2006, 03:23:19 PM »
Trust me Skeptic, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 

They are seen as causing Israel to leave but since Israel left, and since Syria withdrew, there has been a large movement for them to leave. 

The fact that they are stronger than the Lebanese Army does not mean people support them...it just means they are powerless to stop them. 

Their main base of support is the Shiia (because they are pretty much their only real representation in Parliament + the social services they provide) and the Palestinian refugees. 

If you knew anything about Lebanese history, you would realize that many people were afraid that taking out Hezbollah would trigger a Lebanese civil war.  And since Lebanon was crippled during their 16 year civil war that devastated the country and led to at least 5 foreign occupiers, they didn't do so and were hoping to disarm them through national reconciliation but that hadn't happened yet. 

Please stop speaking out of your a$$ when you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 

Skeptic

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Re: Olmert May Be Alright After All: All-Out War Accepted
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2006, 04:38:04 PM »
Trust me Skeptic, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 

They are seen as causing Israel to leave but since Israel left, and since Syria withdrew, there has been a large movement for them to leave. 

The fact that they are stronger than the Lebanese Army does not mean people support them...it just means they are powerless to stop them. 

Their main base of support is the Shiia (because they are pretty much their only real representation in Parliament + the social services they provide) and the Palestinian refugees. 

If you knew anything about Lebanese history, you would realize that many people were afraid that taking out Hezbollah would trigger a Lebanese civil war.  And since Lebanon was crippled during their 16 year civil war that devastated the country and led to at least 5 foreign occupiers, they didn't do so and were hoping to disarm them through national reconciliation but that hadn't happened yet. 

Please stop speaking out of your a$$ when you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 


believe me i know what im talking about.  im muslim (sunni)lebanese from one of the cities they are currerntly bombing.  i know what i am saying because this is exactly what i hear from all my friends and family that currently live in lebanon..both shiaa and sunni and even some christians i know in los angeles.  the current president of lebanon is a major backer of hizbullah, along with several other prominent lebanese leaders...

i wont resort to the same sort of insults you've resorted to, it's childish

jballer

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Re: Olmert May Be Alright After All: All-Out War Accepted
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2006, 05:17:20 PM »
Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. The president of Lebanon is a puppet of Syria...if you don't know that then figure out why everyone is trying to get rid of him. 

Of course some people support Hezbollah but a majority of Lebanese do not. And if you count Lebanese expatriots, it becomes a huge majority of people who are against Hezbollah.  Yeah the Shiia do like I have said.  Unfortunately, Israel's use of force is only swaying more people to Hezbollah's side because people are growing to hate Israel for using too much force. 

I'm sure you know people who support Hezbollah. Again, especially now since the Israelis are killing Lebanese civilians.  Ask if they supported Hezbollah before this conflict...that is where you shall find your answer.  

If the government supported Hezbollah...think about it...they would join the battle against Israel.  Instead they have distanced themselves from it. Hopefully, Israel won't strike hard enough to force them into it.   


Skeptic

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Re: Olmert May Be Alright After All: All-Out War Accepted
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2006, 05:37:08 PM »
Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. The president of Lebanon is a puppet of Syria...if you don't know that then figure out why everyone is trying to get rid of him. 

Of course some people support Hezbollah but a majority of Lebanese do not.

Actually a majority do.  though many don't

And if you count Lebanese expatriots, it becomes a huge majority of people who are against Hezbollah.  Yeah the Shiia do like I have said.  Unfortunately, Israel's use of force is only swaying more people to Hezbollah's side because people are growing to hate Israel for using too much force. 

I'm sure you know people who support Hezbollah. Again, especially now since the Israelis are killing Lebanese civilians.  Ask if they supported Hezbollah before this conflict...that is where you shall find your answer.  

The people i know do not see hizbullah as a terrorist group--they've supported them for all the things they have done for the lebanese people then, and yet they still support them today and probably even tomorrow.  A lot of people, like myself, are furious over what they did.  Howeever, that goes to say that what they did should not have resulted in the brutal and barbaric response we are seeing on the news from israel.

If the government supported Hezbollah...think about it...they would join the battle against Israel.  Instead they have distanced themselves from it. Hopefully, Israel won't strike hard enough to force them into it.   

Like i said, a good number of people in the govt support hizbullah.  the lebanese army really has very little power to do anything.  people laugh when one suggests that the lebanese army do something.


 just so you know, i don't support hizbullah nor israel nor any military organization that cannot deal with the situation in a diplomatic fashion


Julie Fern

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Re: Olmert May Be Alright After All: All-Out War Accepted
« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2006, 05:53:56 AM »
sigh.  not all you folks able act like christians?