Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
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Poll

Choose your favorite conditional element.

Sufficient: It's so dreamy  :::swoon:::
 8 (15.1%)
Necessary gives me that special tingly feeling inside
 10 (18.9%)
Both sufficient and necessary: I'm sorry, I  just can't help  myself,  I  really  can't. Help?
 7 (13.2%)
Neither. They are both biznatches.
 17 (32.1%)
Cause and effect. I'm a rebel.
 11 (20.8%)

Total Members Voted: 50

Author Topic: Guide to CONDITIONAL REASONING (with minty fresh POLL!)  (Read 6718 times)

LizPendens™

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Guide to CONDITIONAL REASONING (with minty fresh POLL!)
« on: June 25, 2006, 01:24:38 PM »
This is an interactive FAQ for LSD's LSAT students'--both self-study and prep course--reference. If you have anything to add or correct, please post. If you have any questions, post them and someone will answer them. Do a search on the word GUIDE to pull this FAQ up in the future...it will pull up some other helpful stuff too.

I'm no expert on anything, but as I am the one to start the thread, I'll go first.  ;D


Reference: The Powerscore Logical Reasoning Bible; Chapter Six, pgs. 115-170


Some Common Confusion over Conditional Reasoning Concepts Clarified...I Hope

1. The sufficient condition NEEDS, REQUIRES and GUARANTEES the occurrence of the necessary condition

Paris Hilton REQUIRES parties. If Paris Hilton has a free evening, then she will attend a party.

PH ---> P


2. The necessary condition does NOT require the occurrence of the sufficient condition
or
The necessary condition may or may not occur proximate to the occurrence of the sufficient condition

A party may occur with or without Paris Hilton. Some parties are not to Paris's taste. A 5 year old's party would probably not indicate the occurrence of Paris Hilton's presence. A retirement party for an insurance company salesman would probably not indicate the occurrence of Paris Hilton.

3. Think of the common uses of the terms when evaluating statements for the presence of a conditional relationship.

Sufficient = Enough
Necessary = Required for...

B is necessary (required) but not sufficient (enough) for A

A party is necessary (required) for Paris Hilton, but it's not sufficient (enough); Paris also requires designer clothes, paparazzi attention, a vapid sidekick as an accessory, a teacup dog wearing clothing as an accessory (Liz has a new idea for an avatar!), the use of the phrase: "That's hot", a Bentley, $$$$$, and many, many, many, more things.


4. The sufficient condition does not cause, but indicates or signals the occurrence of the necessary condition.

There is no cause and effect relationship between the sufficient condition and the necessary condition. The necessary condition can occur before, concurrent with, or after the sufficient condition.


5. Memorizing lists of conditional indicator words is necessary but not sufficient


You must memorize the indicator words, but you need to understand the relationship between the sufficient and necessary conditions. Only one indicator word may be present, so you need to have a full understanding to identify conditionality.

If Paris Hilton is in town, one can expect a hot party will happen.

"One can expect" is not any list of indicator words but it introduces the necessary condition.


[more to come]
There foam'd rebellious Logic, gagg'd and bound.                           
            -  Charles Dodgson,  "Lewis Carroll"                               
                         "The Game of Logic"

LizPendens™

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Re: Guide to CONDITIONAL REASONING (with fresh minty POLL!)
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2006, 01:25:40 PM »
[reserved for links and more content]
There foam'd rebellious Logic, gagg'd and bound.                           
            -  Charles Dodgson,  "Lewis Carroll"                               
                         "The Game of Logic"

Mr. Incredible

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Re: Guide to CONDITIONAL REASONING (with minty fresh POLL!)
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2006, 05:09:31 PM »
This is an interactive FAQ for LSD's LSAT students'--both self-study and prep course--reference. If you have anything to add or correct, please post. If you have any questions, post them and someone will answer them. Do a search on the word GUIDE to pull this FAQ up in the future...it will pull up some other helpful stuff too.

I'm no expert on anything, but as I am the one to start the thread, I'll go first.  ;D


Reference: The Powerscore Logical Reasoning Bible; Chapter Six, pgs. 115-170


Some Common Confusion over Conditional Reasoning Concepts Clarified...I Hope

1. The sufficient condition NEEDS, REQUIRES and GUARANTEES the occurrence of the necessary condition

Paris Hilton REQUIRES parties. If Paris Hilton has a free evening, then she will attend a party.

PH ---> P


2. The necessary condition does NOT require the occurrence of the sufficient condition
or
The necessary condition may or may not occur proximate to the occurrence of the sufficient condition

A party may occur with or without Paris Hilton. Some parties are not to Paris's taste. A 5 year old's party would probably not indicate the occurrence of Paris Hilton's presence. A retirement party for an insurance company salesman would probably not indicate the occurrence of Paris Hilton.

3. Think of the common uses of the terms when evaluating statements for the presence of a conditional relationship.

Sufficient = Enough
Necessary = Required for...

B is necessary (required) but not sufficient (enough) for A

A party is necessary (required) for Paris Hilton, but it's not sufficient (enough); Paris also requires designer clothes, paparazzi attention, a vapid sidekick as an accessory, a teacup dog wearing clothing as an accessory (Liz has a new idea for an avatar!), the use of the phrase: "That's hot", a Bentley, $$$$$, and many, many, many, more things.


4. The sufficient condition does not cause, but indicates or signals the occurrence of the necessary condition.

There is no cause and effect relationship between the sufficient condition and the necessary condition. The necessary condition can occur before, concurrent with, or after the sufficient condition.


5. Memorizing lists of conditional indicator words is necessary but not sufficient


You must memorize the indicator words, but you need to understand the relationship between the sufficient and necessary conditions. Only one indicator word may be present, so you need to have a full understanding to identify conditionality.

If Paris Hilton is in town, one can expect a hot party will happen.

"One can expect" is not any list of indicator words but it introduces the necessary condition.


[more to come]


Hi. Are you drunk?

LizPendens™

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Re: Guide to CONDITIONAL REASONING (with minty fresh POLL!)
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2006, 05:11:49 PM »
Thanks for that completely off-topic remark.
There foam'd rebellious Logic, gagg'd and bound.                           
            -  Charles Dodgson,  "Lewis Carroll"                               
                         "The Game of Logic"

Mr. Incredible

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Re: Guide to CONDITIONAL REASONING (with minty fresh POLL!)
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2006, 05:16:21 PM »
I'm serious.

strivergirl

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Re: Guide to CONDITIONAL REASONING (with minty fresh POLL!)
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2006, 05:40:20 PM »
how about this...
seeing a post about the weapons/dexterity debate is sufficient to make me want to punch someone in the face. (although not necessary).

LizPendens™

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Re: Guide to CONDITIONAL REASONING (with minty fresh POLL!)
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2006, 05:44:53 PM »
strivergirl, that would diagram as

  WDD ---> PITF

and the contrapositive:

  ~PITF ---> ~WDD
There foam'd rebellious Logic, gagg'd and bound.                           
            -  Charles Dodgson,  "Lewis Carroll"                               
                         "The Game of Logic"

LizPendens™

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Re: Guide to CONDITIONAL REASONING (with minty fresh POLL!)
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2006, 10:55:17 PM »
well, I went easy on him since I didn't want to destroy my own thread. Bur, actually it would be:

Stupid question---> Liz flames his ass

SQ ---> LFA

Contapositive:
~LFA ---> ~SQ
There foam'd rebellious Logic, gagg'd and bound.                           
            -  Charles Dodgson,  "Lewis Carroll"                               
                         "The Game of Logic"

Mr. Incredible

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Re: Guide to CONDITIONAL REASONING (with minty fresh POLL!)
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2006, 01:57:37 AM »
You sound like you're drunk. High?

Mr. Incredible

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Re: Guide to CONDITIONAL REASONING (with minty fresh POLL!)
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2006, 02:07:10 AM »
If Mr. Incredible (AKA Drunk guy with Seal holding a parrot avatar) makes a stupid question, then Liz will make a witty retort.

SQ->WR

Hi Ryan. What country are you from?