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waitlisted

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« on: June 14, 2006, 11:20:44 PM »
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Skeptic

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Re: 40% of Young Dutch Muslims Reject Democracy
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2006, 06:38:46 PM »
troll, the zionist with the same propaganda

philibusters

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Re: 40% of Young Dutch Muslims Reject Democracy
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2006, 09:47:40 AM »
So rejecting "western values and democracy" means "The majority are opposed to freedom of speech for offensive statements, particularly criticism of Islam."  Catherine Mackinnon (is that her name??) a femnist is the U.S. doesn't believe in first amendment protection of pornography and some civil rights leaders don't believe in first amendment protection for hate speech, does that mean they don't have western values?  Of course, not-western values are always in flux because western values are composed of competing values--free speech v. racial and gender equality. ]

What does defend Islam mean?  Does it mean simply to alienate themselves from mainstream society so that they can pratice their faith uncontiminated, in this country it seems like large parts of the midwest already does that, protesting when wal-marts carry south park dvd's and banning their kids from watching tv and reading science magazines cause it might screw with their faith.  For all I know that might be 6% or 7% of the country.  Alternatively, defending the faith could mean violent behavior-not isolating yourself from mainstream society, but rather attacking mainstream society.  Don't know the article doesn't say, in fact the article raises more questions than it answers.
2008 graduate of William and Mary Law School

mason123

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Re: 40% of Young Dutch Muslims Reject Democracy
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2006, 02:51:26 PM »
Well at least the Netherlands know who to kill now.

Happy_Weasel

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Re: 40% of Young Dutch Muslims Reject Democracy
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2006, 08:04:09 PM »
I think this is an excellent idea: How do we stop these freaks outslde of going to Islamia to perform forced abortions?

moonpie

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Re: 40% of Young Dutch Muslims Reject Democracy
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2006, 04:13:23 AM »
It seems roughly analogous to abortion clinic bombers. I'm not sure what you do for these things except force secular state education to hamper extremists from running schools to brainwash people. Even then, unless you say if people whose political doctrines are deemed unacceptable by the state must surrender their children to orphanages or foster care, you're not going to get rid of the problem.

If you asked a poll question in the united states about "How many people are prepared to use force to defend Christianity, (or Christian values)", I bet you'll get a much higher answer.

I'm all for making people embrace a radically libertarian view on free speech. But one of the best quotes i've heard is from a post-Soviet Russian "Everything [good] the Soviets said about Soviet communism was a lie. But everything [bad] about American capitalism was true." Insofar as these peole have been culturally and economically excluded from Dutch life, or modern western capitalist ways of life fail to offer deeper spiritual succor, it isn't surprising that people are turning to their ethnic and religious identities to find succor, and thus think we should have decency exceptions to free speech. The dutch are a cosmopolitan and tolerant lot, which is why that 40% that want restrictions on speech isn't higher.

Cheney's approval rating is like 20%--which means 1 in 5 americans actually like him, or more likely, think they say they should in a telephone poll. You can find anyone who will agree, when asked, to an awful idea or leader if they think their wider political or religious ideologies require them to do so.

I'm of the opinion that western europe needs to figure out how to deal with this problem not because failure means turning into Iran or Tunisia, but failure will give political power to religiously conservative groups whose faith trumps their belief in civil rights, and push the country towards a political-religious dynamic more akin to the United States'.

Happy_Weasel

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Re: 40% of Young Dutch Muslims Reject Democracy
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2006, 01:24:52 PM »
It seems roughly analogous to abortion clinic bombers. I'm not sure what you do for these things except force secular state education to hamper extremists from running schools to brainwash people. Even then, unless you say if people whose political doctrines are deemed unacceptable by the state must surrender their children to orphanages or foster care, you're not going to get rid of the problem.

If you asked a poll question in the united states about "How many people are prepared to use force to defend Christianity, (or Christian values)", I bet you'll get a much higher answer.

I'm all for making people embrace a radically libertarian view on free speech. But one of the best quotes i've heard is from a post-Soviet Russian "Everything [good] the Soviets said about Soviet communism was a lie. But everything [bad] about American capitalism was true." Insofar as these peole have been culturally and economically excluded from Dutch life, or modern western capitalist ways of life fail to offer deeper spiritual succor, it isn't surprising that people are turning to their ethnic and religious identities to find succor, and thus think we should have decency exceptions to free speech. The dutch are a cosmopolitan and tolerant lot, which is why that 40% that want restrictions on speech isn't higher.

Cheney's approval rating is like 20%--which means 1 in 5 americans actually like him, or more likely, think they say they should in a telephone poll. You can find anyone who will agree, when asked, to an awful idea or leader if they think their wider political or religious ideologies require them to do so.

I'm of the opinion that western europe needs to figure out how to deal with this problem not because failure means turning into Iran or Tunisia, but failure will give political power to religiously conservative groups whose faith trumps their belief in civil rights, and push the country towards a political-religious dynamic more akin to the United States'.

nice little speech there.  how many abortion clinics are there?  how many recieve threats?  how many of those threats have been acted upon?

how much criticism of Christianity is there?  how many threats?  how many threats have been acted on?

how much criticism of Islam is there?  what is the punishment for criticizing Islam in most Muslim countries?  how often is that punishment doled out? 

how much criticism of Islam is there?  why do Muslims riot in the streets?  did Christians worldwide riot when the Virgin Mary was covered in dung at a "museum" exhibit?

how much anti-Semitism (full-blown blood libel, way past criticism of Israel) is there in the Arab press?  do Jews riot? 

hmmm?

HTFH.

This is why extremists need to be studied? Why do people reject the system? Hell, why is there moral opposition to eating meat when that is not a societal value?