Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Law school rankings versus endowment  (Read 4756 times)

SanchoPanzo

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2098
  • My avatar is hotter than your avatar
    • View Profile
Law school rankings versus endowment
« on: June 11, 2006, 02:35:48 PM »
I find it interesting how well a law school’s ranking tracks with the size of the university’s endowment. Of course, the ranking, endowment and “quality” of law school are likely related (or perhaps it's the amount of $$ a school has to attract top professors and students that drive it all). However, despite this, there are some interesting “anomalies”. For example, NYU appears where you would not expect it based on endowment alone. Any suggestions? It is simply that NYU spends a disproportionate amount of $$ on it's law school versus the others? Is it location, location, location? Perhaps a combination with or without some other factor(s)?

Note: The first # is LS ranking, second # is undergrad ranking

1/3 Yale University  (CT) – $15.2 billion (LS: 659 million in 2005)

2/5. Stanford University (CA) - $12.2 billion

3/1. Harvard University (MA) - $25.5 Billion (LS: 840 million in 2002)
               
4/9 Columbia University (NY) - $5.2 billion (LS: 300 million in 2003)
                    
4/37 New York University - $1.5 billion (LS: 250 million in 2001)
                    
6/15 University of Chicago - $4.1 billion
                    
7/4 University of Pennsylvania - $4.4 billion
                    
8/20 University of California–Berkeley - $5.2 billion (entire UC system)
                    
8/25 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor - $4.9 Billion (LS: 252 million in 2006)
                    
8/23 University of Virginia - $3.2 Billion (LS: 250 million in 2006)
                    
11/5 Duke University (NC) - $3.8 Billion
                    
12/12 Northwestern University (IL) - $4.2 Billion
                    
13/13 Cornell University (NY) - $4.2 Billion

14/23 Georgetown University (DC) -  0.74 Billion (source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_University) (LS: 29.6 million in 2004)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_colleges_and_universities_by_endowment#_note-0
1L
order in the midst of chaos surrounded by order and a sprinkling of mist with chaos flavor. bake 2 hours then serve

Reaching

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 400
    • View Profile
Re: Law school rankings versus endowment
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2006, 02:40:15 PM »
these are numbers for the entire university, not just the law school. I think the law school endowment numbers would be far more germane.

as436

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 445
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Law school rankings versus endowment
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2006, 04:17:26 PM »
wow look at the distance between HYS and the rest of the schools.. even the bigger schools like Cornell, Michigan, Columbia and Penn dont come close
ann arbor or palo alto next year.. cu in school biatches

http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=as436

http://cornell.facebook.com/profile.php?id=403139 - send me a message if you are going to UMich next year

queencruella

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4213
    • View Profile
Re: Law school rankings versus endowment
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2006, 04:49:05 PM »
I don't think we can really compare based on endowment since we are comparing a school like Harvard, which has a large world-class grad program in almost every conceivable area, to other schools that don't have the same quantity of graduate students in professional programs. That said, Georgetown and NYU are surprisingly low, but it's easy to explain why Harvard is so high.

LSACcansuckmy(L)eftSAC

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Law school rankings versus endowment
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2006, 05:47:48 PM »
I don't think the correlation is strong enough to prove much; in fact, I think the stronger link is between endowment size and the ranking of the undergraduate institution in USNews (could be wrong; would be interesting to see). I think this is because the undergrad is where a university system's main reputation comes from, and also because it is usually the oldest and largest component of a university and thus more liable to produce the largest number of dedicated and talented alumni.

With NYU, I know that the school had been through a rough financial patch for decades (it was forced to sell an entire second campus in the Bronx), a move probably precipitated by poor management and lack of talent needed to maintain a growing endowment. In spite of that, I would venture that its law school has always probably maintained a strong status, at least in the northeast/NY, if not nationally, judging by the luminaries who came out of the school over the past century: Elihu Root, Samuel Tilden, Jacob Javits, Fiorello LaGuardia - all mainly New York political personalities, granted, but ones who managed to gain national prominence. Yet, I bet a considerable aspect of NYU's financial worries (or maybe effect that turned into a cause) was delcining enrollment, perhaps across the boards, but definitely within the undergraduate institution.

SanchoPanzo

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2098
  • My avatar is hotter than your avatar
    • View Profile
Re: Law school rankings versus endowment
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2006, 11:18:38 PM »
these are numbers for the entire university, not just the law school. I think the law school endowment numbers would be far more germane.

Agreed. Unfortunately, the LS numbers are hard to come by. However, I've added a few. The few that I do have seem to reflect the larger trends in the "entire university" numbers. (i.e. HY in one group, many other in another, GULC comparatively smaller).

Based on this data, NYU's Law School endowment is comparable to similarly ranked schools, unlike using the university numbers.

However, I don’t think we can completely disregard a university’s endowment. At some universities, the endowment has been known to donate tens of millions to the law school or pay for some of their significant renovations/constructions. For example, Duke’s endowment donated 15 million to fund renovation of the law library.
1L
order in the midst of chaos surrounded by order and a sprinkling of mist with chaos flavor. bake 2 hours then serve

SanchoPanzo

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2098
  • My avatar is hotter than your avatar
    • View Profile
Re: Law school rankings versus endowment
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2006, 11:20:31 PM »
I don't think the correlation is strong enough to prove much; in fact, I think the stronger link is between endowment size and the ranking of the undergraduate institution in USNews...


Agreed again. I've added the undergrad ranking
1L
order in the midst of chaos surrounded by order and a sprinkling of mist with chaos flavor. bake 2 hours then serve

segundo

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 433
  • Red Sox- Still champs!
    • View Profile
Re: Law school rankings versus endowment
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2006, 09:30:48 AM »
I find it interesting how well a law school’s ranking tracks with the size of the university’s endowment. Of course, the ranking, endowment and “quality” of law school are likely related (or perhaps it's the amount of $$ a school has to attract top professors and students that drive it all). However, despite this, there are some interesting “anomalies”. For example, NYU appears where you would not expect it based on endowment alone. Any suggestions? It is simply that NYU spends a disproportionate amount of $$ on it's law school versus the others? Is it location, location, location? Perhaps a combination with or without some other factor(s)?

Note: The first # is LS ranking, second # is undergrad ranking

1/3 Yale University  (CT) – $15.2 billion (LS: 659 million in 2005)

2/5. Stanford University (CA) - $12.2 billion

3/1. Harvard University (MA) - $25.5 Billion (LS: 840 million in 2002)
               
4/9 Columbia University (NY) - $5.2 billion (LS: 300 million in 2003)
                    
4/37 New York University - $1.5 billion (LS: 250 million in 2001)
                    
6/15 University of Chicago - $4.1 billion
                    
7/4 University of Pennsylvania - $4.4 billion
                    
8/20 University of California–Berkeley - $5.2 billion (entire UC system)
                    
8/25 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor - $4.9 Billion (LS: 252 million in 2006)
                    
8/23 University of Virginia - $3.2 Billion (LS: 250 million in 2006)
                    
11/5 Duke University (NC) - $3.8 Billion
                    
12/12 Northwestern University (IL) - $4.2 Billion
                    
13/13 Cornell University (NY) - $4.2 Billion

14/23 Georgetown University (DC) -  0.74 Billion (source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_University) (LS: 29.6 million in 2004)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_colleges_and_universities_by_endowment#_note-0



Some of the numbers are off. Cal's endowment is only 2.18 billion, Cornell's is 5 billion, Chicago is at 4.5 billion, Northwestern is at 4.9 billion, and Georgetown is at 950 million.
BC class of 06'
-----------------
3.4 G.P.A.
162 (June)
166 (October)

Attending Fall 2006: Wake Forest