Law School Discussion

ZARQAWI dead...new iraq continues to rebuild...progress.

Re: ZARQAWI dead...new iraq continues to rebuild...progress.
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2006, 08:24:31 AM »
I thought it was a bit cowardly of our military to send in two 5000 ton bombs to kill Zarqawi. What?? Our guys are skurred of some combat especially when they knew exactly where he was. That said, I think our war is far from over, pockets of militia are being born everyday, and it's these small pockets that we should worry about over big bad 'Al Quaeda', these are the guys that will send Iraq hurtling fast into civil war.

THE BLUE SWEATER

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Re: ZARQAWI dead...new iraq continues to rebuild...progress.
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2006, 08:33:59 AM »
It wasnt cowardly at all. Why put more troops in danger over this guy than you have to? Have you ever tried to find one guy in a Iraqi village when the town is hostile? I have. Its near impossible. And if you do find them more innocent people and troops would die than if they just bomb the compound. Also the who block was an Zarqawi compound..meaning if you were there you were a bad guy or associating with them.

As far as casualties the only people in on the block were people working for him. (Everyone else is too scared to be around guys like that because of the fact that F-16's will fly over and just bomb the black...or 20 guys with M-4's will shoot everyone on sight). I agree its not going to end the problems, but I think it was a big victory nevertheless.

Re: ZARQAWI dead...new iraq continues to rebuild...progress.
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2006, 08:41:17 AM »
Oh it definitely was a huge victory. But doesn't it make you wonder why we got Saddam alive and well, and the last time I checked, our soldiers were brave warriors and have been engaged in some rather daunting combat. I just think it was a bit much to kill all those innocent people when we could have gotten the guy alive. Oh well, a little too late to be crying over spilt milk. I wonder how many bombs we'll need when we figure out Osama's hiding place....  :D

Statistic

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Re: ZARQAWI dead...new iraq continues to rebuild...progress.
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2006, 09:01:20 AM »
No.  We went there for the energy.  That's why our gas prices are so low.

I thought we went because Rowe and Cheney understood that the best time for the executive branch to acquire power is during a wartime situation (Roosevelt anyone?)

BTW....there is a movement to pass legislation ending the two term limit on the presidency....just though everyone would be intrested to hear that. If that got passed plus the patriot act....can anyone say police state?

I am a republican and I have no problem saying thats complete bs for something like that to even be mentioned.

where are all these black republicans coming from?

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Re: ZARQAWI dead...new iraq continues to rebuild...progress.
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2006, 09:07:57 AM »
Oh it definitely was a huge victory. But doesn't it make you wonder why we got Saddam alive and well, and the last time I checked, our soldiers were brave warriors and have been engaged in some rather daunting combat. I just think it was a bit much to kill all those innocent people when we could have gotten the guy alive. Oh well, a little too late to be crying over spilt milk. I wonder how many bombs we'll need when we figure out Osama's hiding place....  :D

I was in the 82nd Airborne. I can almost gurantee if you put a battalion of troops down there to grab tht guy they would of killed many more innocents and there would have been substantially more collateral damage as they would have had to fight there way to Zarqawi. They werent just going to walk in and take him. In addition from a military standpoint lives of american troops> lives of iraqis who collaborate with terrorists. The block that got bombed was a terrorist compound. I seriously question how many innocents were onvolved in that. Last point is just because it came from a F-16 doesnt mean it was a big bomb. People typically think of a JDAM which is a 2000 pound bomb which would have been overkill. However a different explosvie was used hich would have signifigantly lowered external casualties.

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Re: ZARQAWI dead...new iraq continues to rebuild...progress.
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2006, 09:08:17 AM »
It wasnt cowardly at all. Why put more troops in danger over this guy than you have to? Have you ever tried to find one guy in a Iraqi village when the town is hostile? I have. Its near impossible. And if you do find them more innocent people and troops would die than if they just bomb the compound. Also the who block was an Zarqawi compound..meaning if you were there you were a bad guy or associating with them.

As far as casualties the only people in on the block were people working for him. (Everyone else is too scared to be around guys like that because of the fact that F-16's will fly over and just bomb the black...or 20 guys with M-4's will shoot everyone on sight). I agree its not going to end the problems, but I think it was a big victory nevertheless.


TITCR.

Re: ZARQAWI dead...new iraq continues to rebuild...progress.
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2006, 09:25:14 AM »
Oh it definitely was a huge victory. But doesn't it make you wonder why we got Saddam alive and well, and the last time I checked, our soldiers were brave warriors and have been engaged in some rather daunting combat. I just think it was a bit much to kill all those innocent people when we could have gotten the guy alive. Oh well, a little too late to be crying over spilt milk. I wonder how many bombs we'll need when we figure out Osama's hiding place....  :D

I was in the 82nd Airborne. I can almost gurantee if you put a battalion of troops down there to grab tht guy they would of killed many more innocents and there would have been substantially more collateral damage as they would have had to fight there way to Zarqawi. They werent just going to walk in and take him. In addition from a military standpoint lives of american troops> lives of iraqis who collaborate with terrorists. The block that got bombed was a terrorist compound. I seriously question how many innocents were onvolved in that. Last point is just because it came from a F-16 doesnt mean it was a big bomb. People typically think of a JDAM which is a 2000 pound bomb which would have been overkill. However a different explosvie was used hich would have signifigantly lowered external casualties.

It was two 500 pound missiles and not 5000 pounds, my bad. I believe the said bombs were targeted at just the one house/compound where he was at. It was mentioned on the nightly news that a woman and a child were still buried under the rubble left in the aftermath of the death. I will not question your knowledge as a vet, but to my civilian mind, I do not think it was justified to kill innocent people in the surrounding houses/compounds in the name of killing just one man. The news made it sound as though, troops moved in and picked them all up after the bombings. If the entire village was against us, why did we have to bomb just one house, and how come we were quick on the scene to try to lift Zarqawi to get medical treatment shortly before he died, what about the other Zarqawi apologists and supporters in the neighbouring houses and compounds. Great thing we got him, I am not privy to military procedures or tactics, but I find it amusing that bombs were dispatched to completely wipe the guy out and any traces he might have left behind.

Like I said, it's already too late to be wondering about the methods used, as long as the goal of the mission was accomplished (killing Zarqawi), I just wonder how many bombs will be dispatched  when Osama is found.

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Re: ZARQAWI dead...new iraq continues to rebuild...progress.
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2006, 10:04:14 AM »
Ha, you guys really think his death makes much of a difference. His successor has already been named and  its business as usual. There were probably a million other cats willing to take his place.  Its and endless cycle of violence against an enemy that has nothing but time on its hands and more followers being created by the minute. OH, and I wouldn't be surprised if each incident of "collateral damage" creates at least one insurgent family member.  With estimates putting civilian deaths at over 100 thousand, you do the math...


http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/12/iraq.main/index.html
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Al Qaeda in Iraq has named a successor to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the terrorist leader killed in a U.S. airstrike last week north of Baghdad, Islamist Web sites said Monday.

The sites identified the militant group's new leader as Sheikh Abu Hamza al-Muhajer, which means "the immigrant," indicating that he -- like Jordanian-born al-Zarqawi -- is not Iraqi.


Re: ZARQAWI dead...new iraq continues to rebuild...progress.
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2006, 10:13:01 AM »
^^^^ I am not in the least bit surprised. That is Zarqawi's replacement, and there are still a lot of new, up and coming cells of terrorist militia who want to make their names known in Iraq. I think the war in Iraq is way more complicated than just killing off Al-Qaeda. The country is already in turmoil and some speculate, heading towards a civil war, we need to do all that we can to leave some semblance of order in the country, and get our troops out. The war has already happened and we can't take it back, but for how long are we going to stay in the country trying to fight every new group that arises, or try to lay claim to power. Whatever we speculate, that country will NEVER be the same.

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Re: ZARQAWI dead...new iraq continues to rebuild...progress.
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2006, 10:17:01 AM »
Ha, you guys really think his death makes much of a difference. His successor has already been named and  its business as usual. There were probably a million other cats willing to take his place.  Its and endless cycle of violence against an enemy that has nothing but time on its hands and more followers being created by the minute. OH, and I wouldn't be surprised if each incident of "collateral damage" creates at least one insurgent family member.  With estimates putting civilian deaths at over 100 thousand, you do the math...


http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/12/iraq.main/index.html
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Al Qaeda in Iraq has named a successor to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the terrorist leader killed in a U.S. airstrike last week north of Baghdad, Islamist Web sites said Monday.

The sites identified the militant group's new leader as Sheikh Abu Hamza al-Muhajer, which means "the immigrant," indicating that he -- like Jordanian-born al-Zarqawi -- is not Iraqi.



This is true. THey will recover from this. However even though they named a leader it can take years for this guy to reestablish all the contacts Zarqawi. This is one of the negative sides to operating in a cell based command and control system. Its not like say the U.S. army.  If a U.S. field general was killed there would be a formation in the week to present their new commander. Not only that if the field general dies the whole unit already knows who that person would be, and the second and the 3rd. These cells know who this guy is, but the means Zarqawi contacted them is more than likely unkown to him. I cannot speak from fact on this but logically with the command change it will require more communication and more meetings. This allows the U.S. more operations to acquire more information. WIt the increased meetings thats just more opportunities to bomb a bunch of people in one place. The whole point is to keep them running. While you are right BP, you cant solve the problem by killing the head, terrorists are most dangerous when they get comfertable in there situation.. This prevents that.