Law School Discussion

Why Affirmative Action is Justified

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #650 on: July 18, 2010, 01:12:24 PM »
Once again, don't you think that should depend on the parent? Yes, rich parents kids can't get a full govt ride, and can probally afford it just fine. Poor parents kids can get more govt aid, but if it boils down to loans are you telling me that if your parents were lower middle class(lets say $30K a year annual income) you'd be cool with letting them go into hundreds of thousands of debt when you could take the loans under your name(even if they had to cosign, you'd be the main one on it)? Shouldn't the kids not want to prevent their parents from being able to retire due to their actions?

 For 30K a year the child isn't going to have an EFC. The kids can not take the same amount out as indep. students. They can't get it in their name for the same amount. Hey man we can agree to disagree, and I am okay with that, but you really have to make sure you are fully aware prior to making arguments. Your making arguments without even knowing the information. Not said with any malice or sarcasm.


Depend. students loan amounts by year 1.5500, 2. 6500, 3. 7500, 4. 7500
indep. students by year                           1.9500, 2.10550, 3.12500, 4.12500

http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/studentloans.jsp


Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #651 on: July 18, 2010, 06:56:55 PM »
Here is what I know. I made less than $14K last year with a family of three and am over 24 so parents status dosnt impact it, yet I didnt qualify to pell grant or ANY aid. (only stafford loans, which despite being calling them "aid" have to be paid back)

I chose to take out the loan instead of asking my parents to apply for a parent plus loan. First hand, real life experience. Thats what I know and how I know it.

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #652 on: July 18, 2010, 08:11:47 PM »
Here is what I know. I made less than $14K last year with a family of three and am over 24 so parents status dosnt impact it, yet I didnt qualify to pell grant or ANY aid. (only stafford loans, which despite being calling them "aid" have to be paid back)

I chose to take out the loan instead of asking my parents to apply for a parent plus loan. First hand, real life experience. Thats what I know and how I know it.

What is the tuition where you go to school, and how much did you take in loans? What was your EFC?

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #653 on: July 18, 2010, 08:20:16 PM »
When I was in undergrad (and under 24), I applied for government loans. My parents earned pretty decent salaries and I was their dependent, but I was still offered more loan money than it cost to attend school and live on campus. I guess it may somewhat depend on the state or the school. For example, it sounds like it may be harder to get government loans when attending FL schools, but that may be because of their Bright Futures program (I sure wish my home state had that deal when I was in college).

I figured I could weigh in on this argument as someone whose parents paid for her undergrad degree. (I was filling out the FAFSA hoping to get work study--no luck there, just lots of available loans.) I really appreciated the fact that my parents paid for my school and I tried to do things to help lower the cost, such as living with them so that there was no apartment or dorm room cost. I also worked while I was in school and took my classes seriously. I have known quite a few people whose parents paid for their schooling who absolutely took it for granted; however, I also know people who took out loans who didn't take school seriously at all either. I think that it is okay for parents to pay for their child's undergraduate education, and I intend to pay for my children to get their undergraduate degrees. However, I do have a problem with students who don't take school seriously when their parents are paying for it. Another way to look at it is that your parents are making an investment in both your and their future. I hope get to a point in life where I am able  to help out my parents financially if they need it. I also expect to help pay for them in their old age.

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #654 on: July 18, 2010, 08:37:38 PM »
When I was in undergrad (and under 24), I applied for government loans. My parents earned pretty decent salaries and I was their dependent, but I was still offered more loan money than it cost to attend school and live on campus. I guess it may somewhat depend on the state or the school. For example, it sounds like it may be harder to get government loans when attending FL schools, but that may be because of their Bright Futures program (I sure wish my home state had that deal when I was in college).



You are not able to receive more money than the COA designated by your school. You can exceed the tuition and expenses, but not the COA. I just posted the loan amounts you can take from the government per their website- that is the max for UG.

Also there are private loans you can take, and that is not considered government, and that would allow you to exceed both the COA, and designated loan amounts.

I agree with you- I plan to do the same for my children.

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #655 on: July 18, 2010, 10:15:31 PM »
Well, I'm sure it didn't exceed whatever was allowed, but it was quite a bit more than was needed to pay for tuition, a dorm room, and the meal plan. It probably included general living expenses as well or something. All I know is that my school was about $8K/yr (including room & board) and they wanted to give me about $17K. (This was about 6 years ago & I didn't take any of the loan money, so I don't remember exact amounts.) I thought it was weird because my friend who went to a much more expensive school in a different state couldn't get enough government loans to pay for her school and she had to take out private loans.

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #656 on: July 19, 2010, 04:32:38 AM »
Well, I'm sure it didn't exceed whatever was allowed, but it was quite a bit more than was needed to pay for tuition, a dorm room, and the meal plan. It probably included general living expenses as well or something. All I know is that my school was about $8K/yr (including room & board) and they wanted to give me about $17K. (This was about 6 years ago & I didn't take any of the loan money, so I don't remember exact amounts.) I thought it was weird because my friend who went to a much more expensive school in a different state couldn't get enough government loans to pay for her school and she had to take out private loans.

Yeah that makes perfect sense. My tuition and expenses total about 9-10k now, and I get assistance, including loans, up to 20K. It is the COA- which you are right on- exceeds tuition and expenses. It includes exactly what you said- Living expenses.

That makes sense about your friend too- because the amounts are limited if they do not qualify for additional aid besides loans that is absolutely possible!!!


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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #657 on: July 19, 2010, 05:12:48 AM »
Oh, ok. The reason I thought it was weird that she couldn't get enough money was because her school cost more than mine, but the government was willing to loan me more than they would loan her, so she had to take out private loans. Like you were saying, I also thought they were supposed to loan up to a certain amount--I know JD it's $20K or 20.5K and then you have to grad plus or private loans. I mentioned her loan options compared to mine thinking maybe it had something to do with what you all were talking about when you said your parents can affect whether you get loans in undergrad.

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #658 on: July 19, 2010, 02:45:22 PM »
Oh, ok. The reason I thought it was weird that she couldn't get enough money was because her school cost more than mine, but the government was willing to loan me more than they would loan her, so she had to take out private loans. Like you were saying, I also thought they were supposed to loan up to a certain amount--I know JD it's $20K or 20.5K and then you have to grad plus or private loans. I mentioned her loan options compared to mine thinking maybe it had something to do with what you all were talking about when you said your parents can affect whether you get loans in undergrad.

They may have offered you 17K in Aid, but that is not the same as 17K in loans. The school could not offer you 17K in loans. It has to do with your EFC- and that is a result of what your parents earn. So she may have been offered less Aid because her parents may have made more money.

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #659 on: August 26, 2010, 10:30:33 AM »
It probally matters what community you grow up in, to decide your view on that.
I agree with you that if your parents are millioniares and don't feel the strain, then go for it.
What bugs me I guess, is to see parents take out "parent plus loans" to take care of it for their kids. To me, if someone would do that to their parents, it just screams about how little they respect them. I have friends who had to have parents cosign, and I understand that from a credit requirment perspective, but to have the parent take the bucket load of the debt, just screams selfishness.

I haven't been in this topic for a while and just read your post. (1) My parents and I never needed a loan or money from the government. (2) My parents are paying for my college expenses out of pocket because they took out more than enough and saved it before I was born. They took out an annuity of a 5% return every 3 years, and it added up to more than enough to put me through graduate school. To add to that my grandparents did the same, so there is no need for me to have a loan. (3) My dad and mother have money because they were smart with their money management and are bright, but their parents were wealthy (investors) as well. (4) I am 20 living off of my parents because they want me to focus more on school instead of external things and they want me to generate and create my own wealth the smart way rather than following idiotic children and get a job just to pay off rent (giving money away), work at a job I dislike (added stress), and lose focus on what matters (your future prospects). (5) I have lucrative stocks, options, and futures portfolios that are generating me money and I am pretty good at it now that I would be considered a veteran. I have been trading since I was 12 years old with my father and mother. (6) While it is common for 20+ to be living on their own, it is not common for those same 20+ to have lots of their own generated wealth, triple majors, and about to graduate while they are 20 years old.