Law School Discussion

Why Affirmative Action is Justified

thorc954

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified (by red.)
« Reply #100 on: July 05, 2006, 09:02:24 PM »
haha, ill take it either way.  :P

FossilJ

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified (by red.)
« Reply #101 on: July 05, 2006, 09:19:01 PM »
Ehh, I like my definition. I got an A in the class that taught me that. Using that definition is easier then trying to defend non-racist beliefs though.

anyway, good lucks guys in the last few weeks of apartment searches and decisions.


Explain why you like it and why it's useful, then.



Miss P

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified (by red.)
« Reply #102 on: July 05, 2006, 11:02:48 PM »
I do believe that racism is about power.  I do not, however, agree that everyone is racist.  This kind of relativism doesn't permit us to make meaningful distinctions among different forms of race-consciousness or to separate ignorance, passivity, and/or petty bigotries from outright racial hatred.  It's worthwhile to take things systemically; it's not useful to say that we are all so caught up in the system that we don't have agency or the responsibility to be consciously anti-racist.

obamacon

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified (by red.)
« Reply #103 on: July 05, 2006, 11:18:16 PM »
I do believe that racism is about power.  I do not, however, agree that everyone is racist.  This kind of relativism doesn't permit us to make meaningful distinctions among different forms of race-consciousness or to separate ignorance, passivity, and/or petty bigotries from outright racial hatred.  It's worthwhile to take things systemically; it's not useful to say that we are all so caught up in the system that we don't have agency or the responsibility to be consciously anti-racist.

Please directly connect racism, the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others, with power, the ability or official capacity to exercise control; authority.

I'd grant that powerful people can be racists, but not without saying that weak people can be as well. It really has nothing to do with power.

John Galt

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified (by red.)
« Reply #104 on: July 05, 2006, 11:20:41 PM »
I do believe that racism is about power.  I do not, however, agree that everyone is racist.  This kind of relativism doesn't permit us to make meaningful distinctions among different forms of race-consciousness or to separate ignorance, passivity, and/or petty bigotries from outright racial hatred.  It's worthwhile to take things systemically; it's not useful to say that we are all so caught up in the system that we don't have agency or the responsibility to be consciously anti-racist.

Please directly connect racism, the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others, with power, the ability or official capacity to exercise control; authority.

I'd grant that powerful people can be racists, but not without saying that weak people can be as well. It really has nothing to do with power.


its an ism. You can't have an ism without the element of power. Without power, its just prejudice.


There is a difference between having a racist belief and engaging in racism as well.

FossilJ

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified (by red.)
« Reply #105 on: July 06, 2006, 01:07:06 AM »
I do believe that racism is about power.  I do not, however, agree that everyone is racist.  This kind of relativism doesn't permit us to make meaningful distinctions among different forms of race-consciousness or to separate ignorance, passivity, and/or petty bigotries from outright racial hatred.  It's worthwhile to take things systemically; it's not useful to say that we are all so caught up in the system that we don't have agency or the responsibility to be consciously anti-racist.

Not to mention the fact that it entirely presupposes a meaningless philosophical definition of racism.  The definition mentioned is shallow, at best, and blatantly discriminatory, at worst.
 

obamacon

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified (by red.)
« Reply #106 on: July 06, 2006, 06:38:03 AM »
I do believe that racism is about power.  I do not, however, agree that everyone is racist.  This kind of relativism doesn't permit us to make meaningful distinctions among different forms of race-consciousness or to separate ignorance, passivity, and/or petty bigotries from outright racial hatred.  It's worthwhile to take things systemically; it's not useful to say that we are all so caught up in the system that we don't have agency or the responsibility to be consciously anti-racist.

Please directly connect racism, the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others, with power, the ability or official capacity to exercise control; authority.

I'd grant that powerful people can be racists, but not without saying that weak people can be as well. It really has nothing to do with power.


its an ism. You can't have an ism without the element of power. Without power, its just prejudice.


There is a difference between having a racist belief and engaging in racism as well.

I'm going to have to completely disagree, but this is the reasoning some in the U.S. use to excuse racism by everyone but whites.

John Galt

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified (by red.)
« Reply #107 on: July 06, 2006, 07:30:11 AM »
I do believe that racism is about power.  I do not, however, agree that everyone is racist.  This kind of relativism doesn't permit us to make meaningful distinctions among different forms of race-consciousness or to separate ignorance, passivity, and/or petty bigotries from outright racial hatred.  It's worthwhile to take things systemically; it's not useful to say that we are all so caught up in the system that we don't have agency or the responsibility to be consciously anti-racist.

Please directly connect racism, the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others, with power, the ability or official capacity to exercise control; authority.

I'd grant that powerful people can be racists, but not without saying that weak people can be as well. It really has nothing to do with power.


its an ism. You can't have an ism without the element of power. Without power, its just prejudice.


There is a difference between having a racist belief and engaging in racism as well.

I'm going to have to completely disagree, but this is the reasoning some in the U.S. use to excuse racism by everyone but whites.

Well you can completely disagree, but even if you do disagree you'd have to admit that even from your own analysis the racism by whites is the most harmful because of the power element. Additionally, the very definition that you proposed indicated racism was about a belief of racial superiority - what other than power can legitimize superiority?

Miss P

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified (by red.)
« Reply #108 on: July 06, 2006, 09:13:04 AM »
I do believe that racism is about power.  I do not, however, agree that everyone is racist.  This kind of relativism doesn't permit us to make meaningful distinctions among different forms of race-consciousness or to separate ignorance, passivity, and/or petty bigotries from outright racial hatred.  It's worthwhile to take things systemically; it's not useful to say that we are all so caught up in the system that we don't have agency or the responsibility to be consciously anti-racist.

Please directly connect racism, the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others, with power, the ability or official capacity to exercise control; authority.

I'd grant that powerful people can be racists, but not without saying that weak people can be as well. It really has nothing to do with power.

I believe that it is most helpful to think about racism in terms of material effects and not in terms of values and beliefs that people hold.  My prejudice against gays (err, this is hypothetical, okay?), for instance, may be odious and wrong, but I wouldn't call it heterosexism or homophobia until it has some palpable, external form.  Thus, I think that the belief in racial superiority is disgusting, but it is when it is effectuated in order to hold one race beneath another that it becomes "racism."  It is nearly impossible for certain groups to be racist against certain other groups outside of very limited situations because they do not have the power to make their bigoted beliefs (which may be abhorrent) realized outside of their diseased minds.

obamacon

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified (by red.)
« Reply #109 on: July 06, 2006, 04:04:06 PM »
I believe that it is most helpful to think about racism in terms of material effects and not in terms of values and beliefs that people hold.  My prejudice against gays (err, this is hypothetical, okay?), for instance, may be odious and wrong, but I wouldn't call it heterosexism or homophobia until it has some palpable, external form.  Thus, I think that the belief in racial superiority is disgusting, but it is when it is effectuated in order to hold one race beneath another that it becomes "racism."  It is nearly impossible for certain groups to be racist against certain other groups outside of very limited situations because they do not have the power to make their bigoted beliefs (which may be abhorrent) realized outside of their diseased minds.

That only works if you redefine your terms. You can call that racism if you want to and thatís the way our language is starting to shift, but the original meaning of the term, and the one I find most honest is belief based. We have other ways of conveying what you just said in English, you donít need to redefine racism as a requiring a component of power.