Help!!! In at Penn off WL!!!

[assembletheways]

Also, Wharton matters a lot less than people might suggest.  My ex's father was a CFO for a major corporation and a Wharton alumn.  Basically, after listening to him, I concluded that Wharton should be a non-factor in my decision.

I know this is true in some fields, but I'm told it's the exact opposite in others.  (Although to be fair, the people I've talked to about it have a vested interest. )

I guess it really depends upon the person's goals.  I'd have to see their plans to recommended it, but for the average person who wants to work in a firm, I don't think it matters more than their classrank.

Also, yeah, there is a huge difference between the JD/MBA program and certificate program, and although most people getting JDs don't need a MBA (and vice versa), there are specific reasons it would be desirable.

[assembletheways]

Anything corporate, finance, business related, go to Upenn

Otherwise, go to whichever school you like more (rankings be damned)

5 years ago Duke was ranked higher than Penn, now Penn has moved up, will it always be that way? I dunno but I would prolly take 42k + Duke over Upenn. In DC, where I am, duke = penn.

Penn is inner city and ugly area, Duke is well, very very nice.

Go visit Penn in the next 2 days lol, if u can.

I am not sure what you mean, but most biglaw lawyers deal with these issues.  If you are interested in these issues more than law, then get an MBA.  If you are very interested in these issues (more so than the average biglaw lawyer), and get into the joint degree program at Penn and not Duke, got to Penn (and vice versa).

[assembletheways]

Anyone who says Duke is better than Penn or Penn is better than Duke is just crazy.

Agreed.

Some things I liked about Duke: when I was considering going there, the administration was very friendly to me. I emailed a few teachers and, usually within the day, they emailed me back (even their star consitutional law professor Ewin Chemerinsky). The small class size was great and I also liked their grading system.

I also found the administration/faculty very helpful/accessible. I think a selling point for both Duke and Penn is academic freedom.

Some things I liked about Penn: That I can take up to 4 classes in any other department besides the Law School (including Wharton)

I'd like to clarify Duke's policy here, because it is complicated. I think the freedom to study outside of the law school was a non-issue between the schools I considered.

At Duke you can take 1 class out of the law school (that is not cross-listed) automatically and get credit towards your degree.  The second class is virtually automatic you just have to get a signature, and they said they will sign off almost always (thus you can really almost automatically get credit for two classes).

You can also take two additional classes without disrupting your studies because Duke's faculty recently voted to decrease the number of credits required to graduate by six credits (two classes) in order to give students more time to do other activities such as journals (Duke has a lot), moot court, internships, externships, et cetera.  Thus, without overloading, you could take 4 classes almost automatically, and get credit for two.  You wouldn't get credit for the other two, but you wouldn't really need them. Additionally, you still have other room before you overload depending on your structure. You only need 54 credits in your 2nd and 3rd years (13.5 credits per semester). So it seems you could take up to six classes outside of the law school, but only get credit for two. Also, you can also take classes from other law schools (mainly UNC if they offer a specialized class you are interested in taking).

Also, call me a sucker ...

Sucker.   I'm sorry what were you saying? j/k

Some things I disliked about Duke: The location (I like big cities)

For some, I think this is an issue. I thought, there are a million people in the triangle area, and I really like the natural resources easily available. But, yes, Philly is a suburb of NYC, and larger than the triangle area. 

and the small scholarship money I was offered compared to the money I got at Penn, UCLA, and Georgetown.

I think scholarship money might be a big issue for some people if the money issue is lopsided.

As you can see, my choice was based on very personal criteria, as should the OP's.

Agree.

[umd blue devil]

i was saying go to penn if u want to do finance or corporate law because i feel clients are more likely to be penn grads than duke. Its not going to make u a better lawyer or understand finance more, but being able to connect with an alum, even if different part of the university would be a plus. Otherwise just take the money and go to duke.

[spanishpolice]

Hey KC and others.  Just to clarify where I'm coming from I'm going to Penn in the fall.

1.  I think you need to see a law school before you go there.  It's too important to be pushed into it.  If you like being completely honest, tell Penn admissions of your high interest, that you are willing to spend hundreds of dollars to visit, but that you need another X days.  My bet is they will oblige as you appear to be a very strong candidate.

2.  I think you need to take location into account.  You've been impressed with Duke's location; see if Penn's stack up.  For me, Virginia's (oh virginia, sometimes I wish I could peek in on parallel universe Spanish, and see how he's doing in Charlottesville) and Penn's campus both seemed really exciting and fun, so the deciding factor for me in this regard was to try something different in life.  In fact, if Duke has a Virginia feel (as I suspect it might) I completely understand how hard your decision is.

3.  Saying Ivy is nice and it's been fun this summer when other people come up to me hearing I'm going to Penn, but in reality, at the law school, the people who matter with regards to getting a job know that it's the T14 that matters, and even within that division your grades at those schools.

4.  Argh 42,000 + COL is a lot of money.  Normally, I tell people to take this into account last, as the most important thing to take into account is going to the school that is best for you.  But that's a lot of money for such a small rankings disparity.  IMO, Penn is ranked a little higher, but the way the rankings work, it's probably only a matter of time before Duke is back in the top ten.  There is a big merry-go-round between 7-13 in the U.S. News and World Report.  Think, if you are choosing Penn because of a higher ranking, if in two years Duke were to be ranked 8 and Penn 9, if you would feel like killing yourself for having passed on 42,000.  That said, Penn's been holding a steady high ranking for about five years straight now.

So, yeah, I guess you got to go with your gut.  Go to Philly, see if you love Penn.  I do, and I'd be more than happy to answer any questions about the school if you want to PM me.  I know that for me, if Virginia had offered me 42,000 more than Penn I would have been in Charlottesville immediately.



EDIT: And now for some shameless self-promotion!

Things I love about Penn:

1.  Philadelphia is a legal center.  Tons of firms, seat of the 3rd circuit court of appeals.  Private and government opportunities abound.

2.  The professors I met are awesome.  I actually had fun while sitting in on a class during the ASW.  The professor was extremely engaging and interesting.  The ones I spoke to during the ASW were very personable; so much so that during my selection process, I would e-mail them for information or student contacts and they would quickly oblige.

3.  Philly is located less than 2 hours from both New York and Washington DC, so the legal opportunities are even more numerous.  One in particular which I can not wait to take advantage of is a legislative clinic in which Penn finances your train tickets once a week to work on Senate Committes in DC.  As others have mentioned Penn's reputation is also very strong in NYC, but also all over the country.  While Duke and Penn are comparably ranked and can both place across the country, I've talked to lawyers unrelated to both who say that Penn is still more of a national school.

4.  I loved both the current students and the other admits.  As someone else once wrote, perhaps the common sentiment that Penn is more collegial might not be inherent within the institution, however the rumor seems to be a self-fulfilling prophesy in that it attracts a certain type of student. 

5.  Philadelphia is an incredibly fun city.  During the Admitted Student Weekend alone I had a blast and that doesn't even include all the opportunites I didn't get a chance to take advantage of yet, such as ballgames, festivals, concerts.

6.  Impressive facilities, beautiful courtyard, great library.

So yeah, now i've done my job.

[gillesthegreat]

When people say "ivy league" in interviews, in my experience, they are also referring to peer schools (like Duke, Stanford, MIT, etc.)  

Lisa: Thanks a lot everybody, now I'll never get into an Ivy League school!
Bart: You're going so Stanford, you're going to Stanford! Homer: You're going to Stanford!

I rest my case.

[gillesthegreat]

Are you actually arguing that if many people are wrong, we should revise the truth to fit what people mistakingly think is true?

[spanishpolice]

Lisa: Thanks a lot everybody, now I'll never get into an Ivy League school!
Bart: You're going so Stanford, you're going to Stanford! Homer: You're going to Stanford!

After Lisa gets a zero on a quiz:

Harvard Admissions Counselor: Nasty business, that zero, Lisa.  Naturally, this precludes the possibility of you attending Harvard.  But I'll be sure to pass your application on to Brown.
Principal Skinner: Mmm, Brown, a fine school!  Otto, didn't you go to Brown?
Otto (sunbathing on bus): Darn, right.  Almost got tenure.

[Towlie]

and now we've resorted to Simpson's quotes to help chose a law school.. classic.

[spanishpolice]

and now we've resorted to Simpson's quotes to help chose a law school.. classic.

We can't all be as prestigious as a pot-smoking towel.



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