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Author Topic: YOUCH!!! That hurts a LOT, doesn't it Fedex?  (Read 1672 times)

J D

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YOUCH!!! That hurts a LOT, doesn't it Fedex?
« on: June 05, 2006, 12:00:25 AM »
See here:  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060604/ap_on_re_us/fedex_discrimination_lawsuit

This is probably the biggest Title VII harassment judgment I have ever seen.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was subsequently cut down on a Rule 59 motion.  But still . . . DAMN!   :o
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Re: YOUCH!!! That hurts a LOT, doesn't it Fedex?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2006, 07:41:11 AM »
11 million compensetory?  @#!* law school, make millions driving a truck!

J D

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Re: YOUCH!!! That hurts a LOT, doesn't it Fedex?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2006, 07:50:43 AM »
11 million compensetory?  @#!* law school, make millions driving a truck!

Perhaps, but racial harassment cases are usually REALLY UGLY.  I'm not sure any rational person would want to endure that, even if that much compensation were guaranteed at the end.  It's like wishing that you suffered horrible, life-altering injuries in an auto accident just so you could recover from the other driver who was careless.
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Re: YOUCH!!! That hurts a LOT, doesn't it Fedex?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2006, 08:00:43 AM »
11 million compensetory?  @#!* law school, make millions driving a truck!

Perhaps, but racial harassment cases are usually REALLY UGLY.  I'm not sure any rational person would want to endure that, even if that much compensation were guaranteed at the end.  It's like wishing that you suffered horrible, life-altering injuries in an auto accident just so you could recover from the other driver who was careless.

yeah, i think you are comparing apples to horribly disfigured oranges with this.  Have you ever seen those people?  I would rather be harassed everyday for the rest of my life than be paralyzed and have to rely on someone else to take a piss, etc.

and most of those cases don't have 11 million in compensetory damages, or even close.  that makes me think FedEx drivers are paid huge salaries (lost salary usually being one of the main components of compensetory damages and all)

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Re: YOUCH!!! That hurts a LOT, doesn't it Fedex?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2006, 06:26:02 PM »
11 million compensetory?  @#!* law school, make millions driving a truck!

Perhaps, but racial harassment cases are usually REALLY UGLY.  I'm not sure any rational person would want to endure that, even if that much compensation were guaranteed at the end.  It's like wishing that you suffered horrible, life-altering injuries in an auto accident just so you could recover from the other driver who was careless.

yeah, i think you are comparing apples to horribly disfigured oranges with this.  Have you ever seen those people?  I would rather be harassed everyday for the rest of my life than be paralyzed and have to rely on someone else to take a piss, etc.

and most of those cases don't have 11 million in compensetory damages, or even close.  that makes me think FedEx drivers are paid huge salaries (lost salary usually being one of the main components of compensetory damages and all)

In principle the comparison is equivalent.  You're essentially saying you wouldn't mind suffering great harm in order to get a large damages award.  And though harassment victims don't have equivalent injuries to accident victims, the damage can still be quite severe (PTSD, losing the ability to ever work or go out in public again, etc).  Read Class Action by Bingham and Gansler; this isn't just fun and games we're talking about here.  Emotional and psychological harm is no joke.  When they say "hostile work environment," they mean it.

I'm well aware that the compensatory damage award is VERY high.  Most Title VII harassment cases that are successfully pressed see awards in the hundreds of thousands, not the tens of millions.  Hence, my prediction that this award will be trimmed down by a well-taken Rule 59 motion.  The size of the award makes me think something very different from your supposition:  the kind of abuse involved in this case was probably MUCH UGLIER and MORE SEVERE than even in the typical, ugly racial harassment case, since, in addition to lost salary and earning potential, another major component of the compensatory damages in these cases consist of ongoing psychiatric treatment expenses and compensation for severe emotional distress and mental anguish.
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Re: YOUCH!!! That hurts a LOT, doesn't it Fedex?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2006, 03:35:30 AM »
11 million compensetory?  @#!* law school, make millions driving a truck!

Perhaps, but racial harassment cases are usually REALLY UGLY.  I'm not sure any rational person would want to endure that, even if that much compensation were guaranteed at the end.  It's like wishing that you suffered horrible, life-altering injuries in an auto accident just so you could recover from the other driver who was careless.

yeah, i think you are comparing apples to horribly disfigured oranges with this.  Have you ever seen those people?  I would rather be harassed everyday for the rest of my life than be paralyzed and have to rely on someone else to take a piss, etc.

and most of those cases don't have 11 million in compensetory damages, or even close.  that makes me think FedEx drivers are paid huge salaries (lost salary usually being one of the main components of compensetory damages and all)

In principle the comparison is equivalent.  You're essentially saying you wouldn't mind suffering great harm in order to get a large damages award.  And though harassment victims don't have equivalent injuries to accident victims, the damage can still be quite severe (PTSD, losing the ability to ever work or go out in public again, etc). 

They aren't equivalent.  See my analogy.  While both are terrible things to happen, I would say that this rational person you speak of would take the mental anquish over having a face that looks like a pothole every time.  And I never said I would take the abuse for the money, I just said it wouldn't be irrational. 

Listen, let's just leave it at this.  I have not and will not say that these people did not suffer or anything to that effect.  But as you have admitted, the norm for these is much lower and there is probably good reason for that.

And one more thing, you are right about the compensetory damages, but who is giving these people emotional treatment, Dr. Phil?  11 million dollars? 

J D

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Re: YOUCH!!! That hurts a LOT, doesn't it Fedex?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2006, 08:06:06 AM »
11 million compensetory?  @#!* law school, make millions driving a truck!

Perhaps, but racial harassment cases are usually REALLY UGLY.  I'm not sure any rational person would want to endure that, even if that much compensation were guaranteed at the end.  It's like wishing that you suffered horrible, life-altering injuries in an auto accident just so you could recover from the other driver who was careless.

yeah, i think you are comparing apples to horribly disfigured oranges with this.  Have you ever seen those people?  I would rather be harassed everyday for the rest of my life than be paralyzed and have to rely on someone else to take a piss, etc.

and most of those cases don't have 11 million in compensetory damages, or even close.  that makes me think FedEx drivers are paid huge salaries (lost salary usually being one of the main components of compensetory damages and all)

In principle the comparison is equivalent.  You're essentially saying you wouldn't mind suffering great harm in order to get a large damages award.  And though harassment victims don't have equivalent injuries to accident victims, the damage can still be quite severe (PTSD, losing the ability to ever work or go out in public again, etc). 

They aren't equivalent.  See my analogy.  While both are terrible things to happen, I would say that this rational person you speak of would take the mental anquish over having a face that looks like a pothole every time.  And I never said I would take the abuse for the money, I just said it wouldn't be irrational. 

Listen, let's just leave it at this.  I have not and will not say that these people did not suffer or anything to that effect.  But as you have admitted, the norm for these is much lower and there is probably good reason for that.

And one more thing, you are right about the compensetory damages, but who is giving these people emotional treatment, Dr. Phil?  11 million dollars? 

I would say you're changing the relevant comparison.  You're saying now that someone would be rational in choosing to suffer horrible psychological injuries rather than horrible physical injuries.  With that much I would probably agree.  But in the beginning, when you suggested quitting law school so you could "make millions driving a truck," this wasn't the relevant comparison: the relevant comparison is between being injured and not being injured.  And I'm saying that it's irrational to suggest one might want to suffer grievous harm, of any kind, just so one can collect millions in damages.  All in all, it's better not to be wronged at all rather than to try to rely on the tort system to "make you whole" with money.

We are not in disagreement over the size of the compensatory award.  It is unusually high.
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Re: YOUCH!!! That hurts a LOT, doesn't it Fedex?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2006, 08:17:58 AM »
11 million compensetory?  @#!* law school, make millions driving a truck!

Perhaps, but racial harassment cases are usually REALLY UGLY.  I'm not sure any rational person would want to endure that, even if that much compensation were guaranteed at the end.  It's like wishing that you suffered horrible, life-altering injuries in an auto accident just so you could recover from the other driver who was careless.

yeah, i think you are comparing apples to horribly disfigured oranges with this.  Have you ever seen those people?  I would rather be harassed everyday for the rest of my life than be paralyzed and have to rely on someone else to take a piss, etc.

and most of those cases don't have 11 million in compensetory damages, or even close.  that makes me think FedEx drivers are paid huge salaries (lost salary usually being one of the main components of compensetory damages and all)

In principle the comparison is equivalent.  You're essentially saying you wouldn't mind suffering great harm in order to get a large damages award.  And though harassment victims don't have equivalent injuries to accident victims, the damage can still be quite severe (PTSD, losing the ability to ever work or go out in public again, etc). 

They aren't equivalent.  See my analogy.  While both are terrible things to happen, I would say that this rational person you speak of would take the mental anquish over having a face that looks like a pothole every time.  And I never said I would take the abuse for the money, I just said it wouldn't be irrational. 

Listen, let's just leave it at this.  I have not and will not say that these people did not suffer or anything to that effect.  But as you have admitted, the norm for these is much lower and there is probably good reason for that.

And one more thing, you are right about the compensetory damages, but who is giving these people emotional treatment, Dr. Phil?  11 million dollars? 

I would say you're changing the relevant comparison.  You're saying now that someone would be rational in choosing to suffer horrible physical injuries rather than horrible psychological injuries.  With that much I would probably agree.  But in the beginning, when you suggested quitting law school so you could "make millions driving a truck," this wasn't the relevant comparison: the relevant comparison is between being injured and not being injured.  And I'm saying that it's irrational to suggest one might want to suffer grievous harm, of any kind, just so one can collect millions in damages.  All in all, it's better not to be wronged at all rather than to try to rely on the tort system to "make you whole" with money.

We are not in disagreement over the size of the compensatory award.  It is unusually high.

1. i think you mistyped

2. this is what we disagree on.  i don't see it as irrational.  the rationale would be that enduring emotional pain of a certain magnitude would be worth so much money.  Plenty of people (rational, I would think) go into professions that are sure to cause emotional pain (Anna Nicole Smith's assistants, etc.) due to the compensation they will receive.  It is also true that people subject themselves to physical harm for profit (boxers, etc.) but not to the level of many accident victims (at least not in the norm)

I think most people would agree (maybe I'll start a poll) that emotional pain is in general not as bad as physical pain, and therefore, it seems silly for this amount to be paid unless driving a truck is really that lucritive a career. 

J D

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Re: YOUCH!!! That hurts a LOT, doesn't it Fedex?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2006, 08:33:08 AM »
11 million compensetory?  @#!* law school, make millions driving a truck!

Perhaps, but racial harassment cases are usually REALLY UGLY.  I'm not sure any rational person would want to endure that, even if that much compensation were guaranteed at the end.  It's like wishing that you suffered horrible, life-altering injuries in an auto accident just so you could recover from the other driver who was careless.

yeah, i think you are comparing apples to horribly disfigured oranges with this.  Have you ever seen those people?  I would rather be harassed everyday for the rest of my life than be paralyzed and have to rely on someone else to take a piss, etc.

and most of those cases don't have 11 million in compensetory damages, or even close.  that makes me think FedEx drivers are paid huge salaries (lost salary usually being one of the main components of compensetory damages and all)

In principle the comparison is equivalent.  You're essentially saying you wouldn't mind suffering great harm in order to get a large damages award.  And though harassment victims don't have equivalent injuries to accident victims, the damage can still be quite severe (PTSD, losing the ability to ever work or go out in public again, etc). 

They aren't equivalent.  See my analogy.  While both are terrible things to happen, I would say that this rational person you speak of would take the mental anquish over having a face that looks like a pothole every time.  And I never said I would take the abuse for the money, I just said it wouldn't be irrational. 

Listen, let's just leave it at this.  I have not and will not say that these people did not suffer or anything to that effect.  But as you have admitted, the norm for these is much lower and there is probably good reason for that.

And one more thing, you are right about the compensetory damages, but who is giving these people emotional treatment, Dr. Phil?  11 million dollars? 

I would say you're changing the relevant comparison.  You're saying now that someone would be rational in choosing to suffer horrible physical injuries rather than horrible psychological injuries.  With that much I would probably agree.  But in the beginning, when you suggested quitting law school so you could "make millions driving a truck," this wasn't the relevant comparison: the relevant comparison is between being injured and not being injured.  And I'm saying that it's irrational to suggest one might want to suffer grievous harm, of any kind, just so one can collect millions in damages.  All in all, it's better not to be wronged at all rather than to try to rely on the tort system to "make you whole" with money.

We are not in disagreement over the size of the compensatory award.  It is unusually high.

1. i think you mistyped

2. this is what we disagree on.  i don't see it as irrational.  the rationale would be that enduring emotional pain of a certain magnitude would be worth so much money.  Plenty of people (rational, I would think) go into professions that are sure to cause emotional pain (Anna Nicole Smith's assistants, etc.) due to the compensation they will receive.  It is also true that people subject themselves to physical harm for profit (boxers, etc.) but not to the level of many accident victims (at least not in the norm)

I think most people would agree (maybe I'll start a poll) that emotional pain is in general not as bad as physical pain, and therefore, it seems silly for this amount to be paid unless driving a truck is really that lucritive a career. 

Perhaps, but I still think you may be too glib in your consideration of what is meant by severe emotional and psychological harm here.  I say that a rational person wouldn't want to suffer that kind of injury under any circumstances, no matter how great the recovery.  Think about it: if you were guaranteed to win a million dollars, would you willingly watch a man get his head severed in front of you in an elevator (and have the head ride up in the car with you nine floors)?  Would you reach into a bag you were told contained your dead father's personal effects only to find a severed leg?  Would you want to deal with constant nightmares, blackouts, PTSD, the inability to work again, all your social and family relationships crumbling to dust in front of your eyes, panic attacks, etc.?  I submit that a rational person would rather not be hurt.  But I guess we'll have to leave it at that.
"I never think of the future.  It comes soon enough."--Albert Einstein

SCgrad

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Re: YOUCH!!! That hurts a LOT, doesn't it Fedex?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2006, 08:51:39 AM »
11 million compensetory?  @#!* law school, make millions driving a truck!

Perhaps, but racial harassment cases are usually REALLY UGLY.  I'm not sure any rational person would want to endure that, even if that much compensation were guaranteed at the end.  It's like wishing that you suffered horrible, life-altering injuries in an auto accident just so you could recover from the other driver who was careless.

yeah, i think you are comparing apples to horribly disfigured oranges with this.  Have you ever seen those people?  I would rather be harassed everyday for the rest of my life than be paralyzed and have to rely on someone else to take a piss, etc.

and most of those cases don't have 11 million in compensetory damages, or even close.  that makes me think FedEx drivers are paid huge salaries (lost salary usually being one of the main components of compensetory damages and all)

In principle the comparison is equivalent.  You're essentially saying you wouldn't mind suffering great harm in order to get a large damages award.  And though harassment victims don't have equivalent injuries to accident victims, the damage can still be quite severe (PTSD, losing the ability to ever work or go out in public again, etc). 

They aren't equivalent.  See my analogy.  While both are terrible things to happen, I would say that this rational person you speak of would take the mental anquish over having a face that looks like a pothole every time.  And I never said I would take the abuse for the money, I just said it wouldn't be irrational. 

Listen, let's just leave it at this.  I have not and will not say that these people did not suffer or anything to that effect.  But as you have admitted, the norm for these is much lower and there is probably good reason for that.

And one more thing, you are right about the compensetory damages, but who is giving these people emotional treatment, Dr. Phil?  11 million dollars? 

I would say you're changing the relevant comparison.  You're saying now that someone would be rational in choosing to suffer horrible physical injuries rather than horrible psychological injuries.  With that much I would probably agree.  But in the beginning, when you suggested quitting law school so you could "make millions driving a truck," this wasn't the relevant comparison: the relevant comparison is between being injured and not being injured.  And I'm saying that it's irrational to suggest one might want to suffer grievous harm, of any kind, just so one can collect millions in damages.  All in all, it's better not to be wronged at all rather than to try to rely on the tort system to "make you whole" with money.

We are not in disagreement over the size of the compensatory award.  It is unusually high.

1. i think you mistyped

2. this is what we disagree on.  i don't see it as irrational.  the rationale would be that enduring emotional pain of a certain magnitude would be worth so much money.  Plenty of people (rational, I would think) go into professions that are sure to cause emotional pain (Anna Nicole Smith's assistants, etc.) due to the compensation they will receive.  It is also true that people subject themselves to physical harm for profit (boxers, etc.) but not to the level of many accident victims (at least not in the norm)

I think most people would agree (maybe I'll start a poll) that emotional pain is in general not as bad as physical pain, and therefore, it seems silly for this amount to be paid unless driving a truck is really that lucritive a career. 

Perhaps, but I still think you may be too glib in your consideration of what is meant by severe emotional and psychological harm here.  I say that a rational person wouldn't want to suffer that kind of injury under any circumstances, no matter how great the recovery.  Think about it: if you were guaranteed to win a million dollars, would you willingly watch a man get his head severed in front of you in an elevator (and have the head ride up in the car with you nine floors)?  Would you reach into a bag you were told contained your dead father's personal effects only to find a severed leg?  Would you want to deal with constant nightmares, blackouts, PTSD, the inability to work again, all your social and family relationships crumbling to dust in front of your eyes, panic attacks, etc.?  I submit that a rational person would rather not be hurt.  But I guess we'll have to leave it at that.

i sincerely doubt that is what was happening here.  your comparison is chimerical.  both of your scenarios involve people dying, one of those being my father.  i find that pretty f-ing sick and you pretty sick for making such statements.