Law School Discussion

Am I stealing?

Ginatio

Re: Am I stealing?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2004, 08:37:47 AM »
actually, that's debatable. windows xp automatically logs you onto available wireless networks by default. it would in fact take effort to force it NOT to log onto the neighbor's network... so really, if anyone is liable here, it's microsoft for enablement

Except that you acted to receive the signal.  It is not as if you were forced to use the signal.  It required some action on your part to use the signal.

To consider this stealing would be debatable.  Since the wifi signals are being beamed into your private residence, you have free access to it.  On the other hand, if it was WAP/WEP enabled and you went ahead and cracked the encryption, then it wuld be considered stealing, since you're breaking and entering their wifi signals. 



GentleTim

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Re: Am I stealing?
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2004, 08:38:04 AM »
Does stealing bandwidth end up costing the person who's paying for the WiFi anything extra.  I know that if they're using the internet you'll be slowing them down, but say that you only use it when they're at work?

Does it cost them anything?  Do they even notice?

jgruber

Re: Am I stealing?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2004, 08:38:26 AM »
Yup and by the same people who complain about high gas prices.

Whether they ask for it or not, it's stealing.

Just the same way it would be stealing if someone -- and I see this all the time -- leaves their car running while they go in the convenience store and then someone drives away with their car.

You see that all the time??

Ginatio

Re: Am I stealing?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2004, 08:39:28 AM »
they can check their access logs to see who else has been logging onto their device, but if they're too stupid to enable WEP, then they're too stupid to do this.

as far as i know, no company charges per GB used monthly. they pay a flat fee. so, no. they won't be affected. just don't get them in trouble by looking up kiddie porn

GentleTim

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Re: Am I stealing?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2004, 08:40:11 AM »
Yup and by the same people who complain about high gas prices.


Yeah, I guess $2.09 / gallon + the cost of new car is a bit expensive for a fill-up  ;)

jgruber

Re: Am I stealing?
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2004, 08:41:21 AM »
The cost is not an issue as to whether it is theft.

XP does not automatically log you on to available wireless networks.  It requires an action on your part.  I've done this a number of times lately while traveling.  You have to take action to use the signal.

Does stealing bandwidth end up costing the person who's paying for the WiFi anything extra.  I know that if they're using the internet you'll be slowing them down, but say that you only use it when they're at work?

Does it cost them anything?  Do they even notice?

Ginatio

Re: Am I stealing?
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2004, 08:42:34 AM »
I have XP professional, and whenever it finds a signal, BAM. i'm connected. and i haven't played with the settings at all, so i'm assuming this is the default.

The cost is not an issue as to whether it is theft.

XP does not automatically log you on to available wireless networks.  It requires an action on your part.  I've done this a number of times lately while traveling.  You have to take action to use the signal.

Does stealing bandwidth end up costing the person who's paying for the WiFi anything extra.  I know that if they're using the internet you'll be slowing them down, but say that you only use it when they're at work?

Does it cost them anything?  Do they even notice?

GentleTim

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Re: Am I stealing?
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2004, 08:47:40 AM »
The cost is not an issue as to whether it is theft.


I dunno.  This sounds to me a bit like stealing the shade of a neighbor's tree.  Sure, you have to stand there to take advantage of it, but it's being broadcast into your area, and if it doesn't cost the user anything it's hard for me to feel to bad.

It seems like a smart thing to do would be to go in on a single subscription with a neighbor.

Casper

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Re: Am I stealing?
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2004, 08:48:49 AM »
Think of it as your neighhor broadcasting a radio signal to your home.  If you have a reciever that can pick up his broadcast, then are you "stealing" his broadcast?  On the other hand, if XM radio is broadcasting signals to your home, and the only way you can obtain that signal is either pay for it, or crack their encryption.  Cracking their encryption to obtain free service is stealing.  But if the neighbor does not have WAP/WEP enabled, then he's giving it away.  

And if you're one of those ethicists, then I suggest you locate your neighbor who has the free wifi signal and offer to share his connection by paying half, which also violates most TOS (terms of service).

M2

Re: Am I stealing?
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2004, 08:49:01 AM »
BTW, yes, its stealing.  We installed wireless in our house here, and we've done everything imaginable to make sure the neighbors and random people don't use it.

WHy?

I have done the exact opposite. I setup my wireless AP so that random people on the street and my neighbors CAN use it.