Law School Discussion

these leiter group rankings are pretty interesting

the original dunson

these leiter group rankings are pretty interesting
« on: May 28, 2006, 11:55:20 AM »
what do you think?

http://www.leiterrankings.com/archives/2000archives_top40.shtml

I really like the groupings and they seem to be pretty accurate.

Re: these leiter group rankings are pretty interesting
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2006, 05:15:16 PM »
Those rankings seem pretty bad.  I don't really think a subjective faculty quality ranking is an accurate way of grouping schools.  There is no way that having U of Arizona ahead of W&L, BC, Fordham, and Iowa is an accurate ranking of the law schools as a whole.

the original dunson

Re: these leiter group rankings are pretty interesting
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2006, 05:17:06 PM »
Those rankings seem pretty bad.  I don't really think a subjective faculty quality ranking is an accurate way of grouping schools.  There is no way that having U of Arizona ahead of W&L, BC, Fordham, and Iowa is an accurate ranking of the law schools as a whole.

Despite certain anomalies, the groupings in general are very accurate.

cyberrev

Re: these leiter group rankings are pretty interesting
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2006, 07:51:57 AM »
since none of those august institutions saw fit to admit me, they all suck  :D

John Galt

Re: these leiter group rankings are pretty interesting
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2006, 08:11:28 AM »
aside from his obvious UT bias, they are ok.

His student quality rankings are stupid only looking at 75% LSAT, but not including 75% GPA. Harvard troll. His faculty rankings and clerkship rankings are also stupid looking at total number rather than per capita. Harvard troll.

Lenny

  • ****
  • 455
    • View Profile
Re: these leiter group rankings are pretty interesting
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2006, 08:30:57 AM »
Agreed - Leiter is the definition of arguing facts backward from a predetermined conclusion.  For instance, his blanket statement that when two schools have equal LSAT scores, the school with the larger enetering class body is obviously the stronger student body is ridiculous.  Size of student body may matter if the two schools were to fight each other on an open, Braveheart-esque battlefield, but is irrelavant when comparing "strength of student body."

"V"

  • ****
  • 594
  • Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici
    • View Profile
Re: these leiter group rankings are pretty interesting
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2006, 09:20:15 AM »
Agreed - Leiter is the definition of arguing facts backward from a predetermined conclusion.  For instance, his blanket statement that when two schools have equal LSAT scores, the school with the larger enetering class body is obviously the stronger student body is ridiculous.  Size of student body may matter if the two schools were to fight each other on an open, Braveheart-esque battlefield, but is irrelavant when comparing "strength of student body."

I'm not entirely sure that's accurate. It depends on how you measure 'strength' of the student body. For instance, at UIUC our entering class is probably going to be in the 150 range. I've heard of law schools with upwards of 500+ entering. In terms of pure resources, if all students were clones of each other, the larger still has advantages. In the same amount of time, it would produce more 'scholarly works' of equal quality to the smaller. It can divest itself to wider breadth of activies, ie, '100 students work soley in public interest this summer' compared to a smaller school which can only equal percentages, not actual numbers.

That being said, I would measure student body strength as the average student at a school, meaning I would consider larger and smaller to be of the 'strength' if its students were all the same. But I can see the other argument. Additionally, I would hate being in a school with a massive class size - I'd much rather have a shot at learning who everyone is, and making law school an experience, not just a step towards my career - which I don't think I could do at a massive school.

Lenny

  • ****
  • 455
    • View Profile
Re: these leiter group rankings are pretty interesting
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2006, 09:24:39 AM »
You make valid points, but they don't excuse the fact that Leiter implies that size of class is a per se strength enhancement.  There are many ways to measure such a subjective issue, and Leiter's statement that size of class clearly makes it stronger simply does not recognize that there are more than one way to measure it.  Instead, he is trying to find a way to make Harvard better than Yale, Fordham better than UIUC and W&L, etc.

-0-

  • ****
  • 195
    • View Profile
Re: these leiter group rankings are pretty interesting
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2006, 10:07:47 AM »
While you're certainly right that there are so many other factors to consider in terms of school strength, I do think that size is a valid one.  A large incoming class with a huge amount of 175's shows Harvard's ability to pull a very large amount of gifted students.  They don't just grab one or two 175's, they get a whole bunch more, and this does in some way speak to their strength as an institution.

"V"

  • ****
  • 594
  • Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici
    • View Profile
Re: these leiter group rankings are pretty interesting
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2006, 02:47:23 PM »
While you're certainly right that there are so many other factors to consider in terms of school strength, I do think that size is a valid one.  A large incoming class with a huge amount of 175's shows Harvard's ability to pull a very large amount of gifted students.  They don't just grab one or two 175's, they get a whole bunch more, and this does in some way speak to their strength as an institution.

That's not very accurate when you consider most of them were rejected at Yale, and would have gone if admitted (based on Yale's insanely high yield rate)

Ah, the old 'crap flows downhill' theory. Harvard students are the chumps who couldn't make Yale. Standford couldn't make Harvard, and Minnesota couldn't make Berkeley. I guess there may be some truth to it. I'd like to say people take a lot more than pure rankings into decison making, but I know from this board it can play a strong hand.