How Do You Feel About Affirmative Action?

[Kirk Lazarus]

There used to be a time in America where, if you made a decision about someone because of there skin color, you were a racist.  Today, just the opposite is true.  If you don't consider skin color, you're a racist.  I firmly believe that law school applications should not contain a person's name, age, race, or sex...only your social security number. That way, you'll get into a certain law school only because you have earned it. 

If you grow up middle class and black, or middle class and mexican, why should you be held to lesser standards of admission and be offered scholarships for literally tens of thousands of dollars, when you poverty raised white male counterpart w/ a LSAT score 9 points higher BARELY gets into the same school and is forced to take out in excess of $150,000 in loans? 

That, my friends, is racism.

Its silly to only consider numerical data as qualification. LSAT and GPA together only predict first year grades. They do not predict second or third year grades. The LSAT doesn't predict what type of lawyer you will be or your temperment or your character. And its not a very good predictor of first year grades as well. The numerical data does not predict who will be a good leader, who will contribute to society, who will give back to the school, etc. Thus, what makes LSAT/GPA any more of a qualification for law school than race? What makes it any more of a qualification that work experience or unique leadership positions, etc? You say minorities are held to a lesser standard, but you haven't proven that the LSAT should be the standard nor have you proven that the LSAT is the standard. Furthermore, you haven't proven that people are held to different admissions criteria based on race alone because you have failed to eliminate the alternative that people are held to different criteria based on their own experiences, promise, and progress over time. 

We should start to think about qualifications in terms of the goals that schools have in picking a class. Their goals are not your goals. Their goals stretch beyond putting together the most numerically well qualified class. I think your analysis is simplistic from that perspective.

Also, I'd like to suggest that if schools decided on applicants without considering their race, they would be making a decision incompletely. For example, race plays an important role in some people's lives and it is influential. People write about how race has affected them personally. Being middle class doesn't eliminate racial bias or covert discrimination. Perhaps it is wrong that poor whites don't get extra consideration in admissions (i'm not sure that they don't), but that isn't a justification for why race shouldn't be considered. Its a pretty weak argument in my opinion.

[KingJason]

I POSTED THIS EARLIER IN ANOTHER GROUP BUT IT STILL APPLIES HERE.

FIRST I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IS NEEDED. I HAVE READ ALL MESSAGES ON THIS BOARD AN ITS APPARENT THAT SOME OF YOUR HAVE MISSED THE BIG PICTURE. SOME OF YOU ARE CLAIMING THAT "THEY TOOK MY SPOT" OR "THEY ARE NOT QUALIFIED". BUT THE ONE I HEARD THE MOST IS "WE HAVE SIMILAR CREDITIALS". I HAVE SEVERAL POINTS TO MAKE AND PLEASE READ AND UNDERSTAND THEM BEFORE ATTEMPTING REPLY!

1. FIRST OFF A PERSON FROM THE PROJECTS OR ANY OTHER ECONOMICALLY DISADVANTEGED INNER/ OUTER CITY IS DEFINTLEY NOT THE SAME AS A WHITE PERSON WHO IS 2, 3, 4... GENERATION COLLEGE STUDENT, LETS BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT!! THEIR EXPERIENCES ARE VERY DIFFERENT AND ITS AMAZING HOW MUCH CAN BE LEARNED FROM EITHER SIDE ONCE THE MEET, IT WORKS TWO FOLD, STUDENTS GAIN KNOWLEDGE FROM EACH OTHER WHICH IN TURN HELPS THEM TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY EFFECTIVLEY. A VALUABLE AND UN-CONTENDED BENEFIT OF AA.

2. LETS HONEST AS TO WHY MINORITIES DON'T FARE WELL ON THE CREDENTIALS. WE (YES I SAID WE) HAVE SECOND-THIRD RATE INNER CITY PUBLIC SCHOOLS, HIGH CRIME RATES WHICH CREATES STRONG CRITICISMS (WHICH IS PRODUCED BY POVERTY BY THE WAY), AND TO TOP IT ALL OFF SEVERLY LIMITED EXPOSURE TO HIGHER EDUACTION IN GENERAL SO WITH THOSE KINDS OF BARRIERS ITS NO WONDER WHY ITS A HARDER ROAD TO ATTAIN THE POSSIBLITY TO GO TO COLLEGE LET ALONE LAW SCHOOL. ACT AND SAT PREP BELIEVE IT OR NOT IS NOT NECC. OFFERED IN PRIMARILY MINORITY SCHOOLS. WITH THOSE LIFE EXAPERIECES THEY BRING TO THE CLASSROOM OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE 0 IDEA OF WHAT EXPEREINCES EVEN LOOK LIKE IT WILL EDUCATE THEM(LAST I CHECKED THAT WAS THE GOAL OF EDUCATION) AND ALSO EMPOWER THE MINORITES TO EMPOWER THEMSELVES.

3.ITS READILY APPARENT THAT AA IS TAKEN PERSONALLY BY SHORTSIGHTED PEOPLE. THEY SAY THIS PERSON TOOK MY SPOT  HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW IT WAS YOUR SPOT HAVE YOU HAD A LIFE FULL OF HARDSHIPS I MEAN COME ON. BUT THATS BESIDES MY INTENDED POINT. AA IS JUST TRYING TO DIVERSIFY THE CLASS WHILE ALOWING THOSE FROM MINORTY BACKGROUNDS TO HAVE THE SAME OPPURTUNITY. THE OUTCOME WOULD BE A DIVERSIFIED CLASS SENSITIVE TO MORE THAN JUST THE ELITE!!! BELIEVE IT OR NOT ITS ACTUALLY NOT ABOUT YOU!!


4. AA IS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE NOT JUST A FEW PEOPLE. HONESTLY HOW MANY NON-URMS HAVE BEEN PUSHED IN TO COLLEGE BY THEIR FAMILY. FOR URMS THIS NOT VERY OFTEN THE CASE. ITS NOT TO BLAMING ANYONES PARENTS BUT JUST SOMETHING TO BE CONSIDERED.

ONE DAY ONE OF YOU WILL HAVE A CLIENT THATS A MINORITY, SO TELL ME HOW VALUABLE WAS IT TO HAVE MINORITIES IN YOUR CLASS TO TELL ABOUT THEIR CULTURE. AND VICE-VERSA FOR MINORTIES

I KNOW YOU ALL ARE GOING TO ARGUE AN POST AND QUOTE...YADA YADA YADA. BUT HONESTLEY AT LEAST ONE OF YOU WILL BE A LAWYER SO I WRITE THIS IN THE HOPE THAT SOMEONE LOOKS AT WHAT I SAID AND REALIZES THAT WE ARE HERE TO SERVE THE COMMUNITIY. I AM AN AFRICAN AMERICAN MALE AND JUST BY READING THIS YOU MAY HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO ANOTHER SIDE OF THIS ARGUMENT.

[uesi]

Ouch, that hurt my eyes. Please get your caps lock key fixed.

[redemption]

I KNOW YOU ALL ARE GOING TO ARGUE AN POST AND QUOTE...YADA YADA YADA. BUT HONESTLEY AT LEAST ONE OF YOU WILL BE A LAWYER SO I WRITE THIS IN THE HOPE THAT SOMEONE LOOKS AT WHAT I SAID AND REALIZES THAT WE ARE HERE TO SERVE THE COMMUNITIY. I AM AN AFRICAN AMERICAN MALE AND JUST BY READING THIS YOU MAY HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO ANOTHER SIDE OF THIS ARGUMENT.

Dude, this is a discussion board. If you want to say your piece, be welcoming of responses. Damn.

[Yeah, me.]

I KNOW YOU ALL ARE GOING TO ARGUE AN POST AND QUOTE...YADA YADA YADA. BUT HONESTLEY AT LEAST ONE OF YOU WILL BE A LAWYER SO I WRITE THIS IN THE HOPE THAT SOMEONE LOOKS AT WHAT I SAID AND REALIZES THAT WE ARE HERE TO SERVE THE COMMUNITIY. I AM AN AFRICAN AMERICAN MALE AND JUST BY READING THIS YOU MAY HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO ANOTHER SIDE OF THIS ARGUMENT.

Dude, this is a discussion board. If you want to say your piece, be welcoming of responses. Damn.

Dude, this was written two months ago.  If you address someone directly, address someone who will actually read your response.  Damn.

[redemption]

I KNOW YOU ALL ARE GOING TO ARGUE AN POST AND QUOTE...YADA YADA YADA. BUT HONESTLEY AT LEAST ONE OF YOU WILL BE A LAWYER SO I WRITE THIS IN THE HOPE THAT SOMEONE LOOKS AT WHAT I SAID AND REALIZES THAT WE ARE HERE TO SERVE THE COMMUNITIY. I AM AN AFRICAN AMERICAN MALE AND JUST BY READING THIS YOU MAY HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO ANOTHER SIDE OF THIS ARGUMENT.

Dude, this is a discussion board. If you want to say your piece, be welcoming of responses. Damn.

Dude, this was written two months ago.  If you address someone directly, address someone who will actually read your response.  Damn.

It's in my stupid unreads.

[Yeah, me.]

I KNOW YOU ALL ARE GOING TO ARGUE AN POST AND QUOTE...YADA YADA YADA. BUT HONESTLEY AT LEAST ONE OF YOU WILL BE A LAWYER SO I WRITE THIS IN THE HOPE THAT SOMEONE LOOKS AT WHAT I SAID AND REALIZES THAT WE ARE HERE TO SERVE THE COMMUNITIY. I AM AN AFRICAN AMERICAN MALE AND JUST BY READING THIS YOU MAY HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO ANOTHER SIDE OF THIS ARGUMENT.

Dude, this is a discussion board. If you want to say your piece, be welcoming of responses. Damn.

Dude, this was written two months ago.  If you address someone directly, address someone who will actually read your response.  Damn.

It's in my stupid unreads.

Well it's not his fault that your unreads are stupid.

[redemption]

Well it's not his fault that your unreads are stupid.

Um, actually it is his fault that this particular unread is stupid.

[Yeah, me.]

Well it's not his fault that your unreads are stupid.

Um, actually it is his fault that this particular unread is stupid.

you've won this round. 

[redemption]

Well it's not his fault that your unreads are stupid.

Um, actually it is his fault that this particular unread is stupid.

you've won this round. 

uh-huh