How Do You Feel About Affirmative Action?

[John Galt]

anyone think that AA is a it of a band-aid?

I think AA is definitely a band-aid. More effort should be devoted to nurturing students of all races from early ages, instead of the skewed devotion of resources to whites that's seen today. However, I do not harbor very much hope of this ever happening because programs which require sustained attention and effort, and do not immediately yield amazing results often fall quickly out of favor. So for now, at least AA is something.

I also think that instead of being done away with entirely, as some advocate, maybe it should be toned down. It seems from some of these LSN profiles that URMs who manage to score over 160 are virtually guaranteed a T10 regardless of their GPA--that strikes me as excessive consideration. Everything should be done in moderation.

On the contrary, AA should probably be more agressive at the top schools than it is right now. IMO, Harvard and Columbia and to some extent NYU are the only schools that strike me as having an honest effort to attract qualified minorities and enroll them.

[redemption]

See my new thread.. it's in my sig line 

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,64541.msg1426394.html#msg1426394

[redemption]

This might very well be right. But I don't see what making an 'honest effort to attract qualified minorities' has to do with having very low grade/LSAT standards for URMs. I'm not arguing that these standards should be raised excessively but it does seem odd to me that URMs, especially black males, with very low numbers seem to get a free pass to the T14 once their GPA/LSAT exceeds 2.8/160. At least this is the impression I get from perusing the Lawschoolnumbers.com site.

Please don't confuse this with a desire to see schools scrutinize numbers more than they already do. I think schools should certainly take a wholistic look at applicants. I also understand the purpose of and support added consideration for minority students. I just question if that much added consideration for URMs is necessary. Perhaps it is and if you can explain why  to me then I'd appreciate it.

As I say, please see my new thread. It might have some answers that you might find persuasive.

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,64541.msg1426394.html#msg1426394

[wannaB1L]

it's lame. My mother grew up poor in Mexico- I went to private schools, university, grad school. When I applied to grad school I checked decline to state as my race- later when I was bragging about how few applicants were admited- a girl said maybe cause I am Mexican ie AA. I think it gives us smart hardworking brown kids a bad rep that we do not deserve.

[thorc954]

I think affirmative action is ruining america.

John, I completely agree with your comments. I have one quick question though. I remember reading your lsn thing, and I thought your lsat was lower then average. This may be a mistake in my memorie cause it has been awhile. How would you respond to the comment that AA is what got you into these schools? Unfortunately, you are in the same position I am. Above average gpa, low scale gpa. I got into an amazing school and you did as well. Therefore this can be chalked up to strong soft factors above an beyond simply race. Anyway, I feel bad because people will look at you and assume that you only got in because of AA. While it may have been a factor in their decisions. Im sure you got in a lot faster then white applicants.  You may have gotten in as a white male as you justifiably should have.  Anyway, im jumping around a little bit, but this is my primary distraction from work, and I wanted to get a little clarification on your opinions on the subject. take care and best of luck at yale...

[Nemesis]

I think affirmative action is ruining america.

John, I completely agree with your comments. I have one quick question though. I remember reading your lsn thing, and I thought your lsat was lower then average. This may be a mistake in my memorie cause it has been awhile. How would you respond to the comment that AA is what got you into these schools? Unfortunately, you are in the same position I am. Above average gpa, low scale gpa. I got into an amazing school and you did as well. Therefore this can be chalked up to strong soft factors above an beyond simply race. Anyway, I feel bad because people will look at you and assume that you only got in because of AA. While it may have been a factor in their decisions. Im sure you got in a lot faster then white applicants.  You may have gotten in as a white male as you justifiably should have.  Anyway, im jumping around a little bit, but this is my primary distraction from work, and I wanted to get a little clarification on your opinions on the subject. take care and best of luck at yale...

 

[philibusters]

I support AA as a means of increasing diversity in the legal profession.  I recognise that schools use their discretion to increase diversity across the border (racial, socio-economic, geographic, etc), and fully support the use of 'diversity policies'.  I don't agree that URM's should receive an automatic LSAT or GPA boost, but that adcomms should take their background into account when evaluating the hard factors vs soft factors.  Unfortunately, adcomms sometimes use an automatic boost as a substitute for a thorough evaluation of a URM's application.

As a personal example, I am a URM who is consistently scoring in the mid-170s in practice LSATs (we'll see how i really do in 2 weeks).  Should I get any type of LSAT boost?  No.  Can I add diversity to a ls class?  Yes!  I'm from a pseudo Caribbean island, have attended school in 3 different countries, have visited numerous countries, and can speak on the experience of being a black, foreign female.  It's the holy trinity of minorities.

If you are scoring in the mid-170s you probably could get into any lawschool easily assuming 3.5+, except for maybe Yale, which seems to be less number driven, but since you have a unique background you probably get in there too-without any AA help.  Furthermore I think your background probably really could add a lot of diversity to a school.  What is unfair for you, is that people will assume AA helped you when you do get into those schools.  However, I think most law schools aren't really looking for diversity, but practice AA for a variety of reasons of political and social reasons going back particularly the 50's and 60's, but also back all the way to the origin of this  country (if you ever read a biography of one of the founders-or at least a good biography of one-think joesph ellis's His Excellency) you'll see that from the beg. of this country race has always been a unusual political issue.  I think its the culmination of those complicated political and social tradition, rather than diversity that drives AA.  After all diversity is weighed outside the AA context in admission process and white people with unique backgrounds probably do benefit outside the AA context, but in my mind that is not the same thing as AA. 

[thorc954]

AnnabelLee, I dont know if you date white guys or not, but I have been following you on here and LSN.  I think we should get married Im really cute for a white boy

[Nemesis]

AnnabelLee, I dont know if you date white guys or not, but I have been following you on here and LSN.  I think we should get married Im really cute for a white boy

 

[NTM]

There used to be a time in America where, if you made a decision about someone because of there skin color, you were a racist.  Today, just the opposite is true.  If you don't consider skin color, you're a racist.  I firmly believe that law school applications should not contain a person's name, age, race, or sex...only your social security number. That way, you'll get into a certain law school only because you have earned it. 

If you grow up middle class and black, or middle class and mexican, why should you be held to lesser standards of admission and be offered scholarships for literally tens of thousands of dollars, when you poverty raised white male counterpart w/ a LSAT score 9 points higher BARELY gets into the same school and is forced to take out in excess of $150,000 in loans? 

That, my friends, is racism.