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Author Topic: How Do You Feel About Affirmative Action?  (Read 13203 times)

Dr Phil

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How Do You Feel About Affirmative Action?
« on: May 27, 2006, 01:43:32 AM »
This post is intended to solicit true feelings about this topic, as it is one that I am very conflicted about. Part of me really appreciates the difficulties one must incur being raised as a minority in this country. There are issues that I sure as hell can't relate to or ever expect to understand, despite my best efforts, less a few months in Africa where the power dynamic is admittedly different.

I, like most beneficiaries of affirmative action, have worked extremly hard throughout undergrad. Furthermore, I studied very hard for the LSAT exam and outperformed 99% of my peers who had taken the test. These two factors make it very difficult for me to embrace affirmative action, and while I am trying to understand its rationale, I often find it hard to accept. While certainly economic and other hardships should weigh in to the admissions equation, I, and I think most top law school applicants, have all worked about as hard as we possibly could have to further our careers and place ourselves in the best position possible to achieve future success and fulfillment in law. In this respect the effort is uniform and not a matter of privelege and I expect it to be equal across race/nationality/sexual orientation/etc. This characteristic is universal.

I think my conflictedness towards AA is wrapped up in this effort and earnestness. I have tried my hardest, as I expect most my URM and non-URM peers have as well. However, though this effort was my best, others who have put forth similar effort, but have achieved lesser results and have a different skin pigmentation than I will still receive better admissions outcomes than I expect to. Often significantly so. Is this fair?

I guess I would like to hear any reasoned response with a reaction/critique of my feelings.

Thanks in advance.

the original dunson

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Re: How Do You Feel About Affirmative Action?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2006, 01:52:47 PM »
I'm all for affirmative action.  I've had nearly every advantage in life, so I'm okay with others getting a boost after being disadvantaged.  It isn't a threat to me; rich white guys still run the country.  We're just bringing in new types to have some say, we'll still hold it down for the next few generations I think.

dbgirl

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Re: How Do You Feel About Affirmative Action?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2006, 02:50:57 PM »
I'm all for affirmative action.  I've had nearly every advantage in life, so I'm okay with others getting a boost after being disadvantaged.  It isn't a threat to me; rich white guys still run the country.  We're just bringing in new types to have some say, we'll still hold it down for the next few generations I think.
I think you hit the nail on the head there Dunson.
When you have somebody dying because they are poor and black or poor and white or because of whatever they are ... that erases everything that's great about this country.

-TMcGraw

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the original dunson

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Re: How Do You Feel About Affirmative Action?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2006, 02:52:12 PM »
I'm all for affirmative action.  I've had nearly every advantage in life, so I'm okay with others getting a boost after being disadvantaged.  It isn't a threat to me; rich white guys still run the country.  We're just bringing in new types to have some say, we'll still hold it down for the next few generations I think.
I think you hit the nail on the head there Dunson.

 :)

I realize this every time I pass Cspan.

John Galt

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Re: How Do You Feel About Affirmative Action?
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2006, 03:43:51 PM »
I think affirmative action is ruining america.

pikey

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Re: How Do You Feel About Affirmative Action?
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2006, 03:44:13 PM »
I support AA as a means of increasing diversity in the legal profession.  I recognise that schools use their discretion to increase diversity across the border (racial, socio-economic, geographic, etc), and fully support the use of 'diversity policies'.  I don't agree that URM's should receive an automatic LSAT or GPA boost, but that adcomms should take their background into account when evaluating the hard factors vs soft factors.  Unfortunately, adcomms sometimes use an automatic boost as a substitute for a thorough evaluation of a URM's application.

As a personal example, I am a URM who is consistently scoring in the mid-170s in practice LSATs (we'll see how i really do in 2 weeks).  Should I get any type of LSAT boost?  No.  Can I add diversity to a ls class?  Yes!  I'm from a pseudo Caribbean island, have attended school in 3 different countries, have visited numerous countries, and can speak on the experience of being a black, foreign female.  It's the holy trinity of minorities. ;)
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Re: How Do You Feel About Affirmative Action?
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2006, 04:17:05 PM »
I support AA as a means of increasing diversity in the legal profession.  I recognise that schools use their discretion to increase diversity across the border (racial, socio-economic, geographic, etc), and fully support the use of 'diversity policies'.  I don't agree that URM's should receive an automatic LSAT or GPA boost, but that adcomms should take their background into account when evaluating the hard factors vs soft factors.  Unfortunately, adcomms sometimes use an automatic boost as a substitute for a thorough evaluation of a URM's application.

As a personal example, I am a URM who is consistently scoring in the mid-170s in practice LSATs (we'll see how i really do in 2 weeks).  Should I get any type of LSAT boost?  No.  Can I add diversity to a ls class?  Yes!  I'm from a pseudo Caribbean island, have attended school in 3 different countries, have visited numerous countries, and can speak on the experience of being a black, foreign female.  It's the holy trinity of minorities. ;)

I agree that you can add diversity to a class.  However, so can my friend who immigrated from Bulgaria (got his citizenship a few years ago), paid his way through school, and can speak seven languages.  Unfortunately, he is put in the same category as every other Caucasian. 
I doubt that. If so, that shouldn't be the case, because he is not of a similar background to most white people.
When you have somebody dying because they are poor and black or poor and white or because of whatever they are ... that erases everything that's great about this country.

-TMcGraw

http://www.wm3.org/splash.php

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Re: How Do You Feel About Affirmative Action?
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2006, 04:29:14 PM »
I support AA as a means of increasing diversity in the legal profession.  I recognise that schools use their discretion to increase diversity across the border (racial, socio-economic, geographic, etc), and fully support the use of 'diversity policies'.  I don't agree that URM's should receive an automatic LSAT or GPA boost, but that adcomms should take their background into account when evaluating the hard factors vs soft factors.  Unfortunately, adcomms sometimes use an automatic boost as a substitute for a thorough evaluation of a URM's application.

As a personal example, I am a URM who is consistently scoring in the mid-170s in practice LSATs (we'll see how i really do in 2 weeks).  Should I get any type of LSAT boost?  No.  Can I add diversity to a ls class?  Yes!  I'm from a pseudo Caribbean island, have attended school in 3 different countries, have visited numerous countries, and can speak on the experience of being a black, foreign female.  It's the holy trinity of minorities. ;)

I agree that you can add diversity to a class.  However, so can my friend who immigrated from Bulgaria (got his citizenship a few years ago), paid his way through school, and can speak seven languages.  Unfortunately, he is put in the same category as every other Caucasian. 
I doubt that. If so, that shouldn't be the case, because he is not of a similar background to most white people.


Well, it was the the case, as he got into the schools that his numbers would dictate if he were considered to be a non-URM. 
Well this is just one more example of how schools should consider a candidate holistically rather than just an index number.
When you have somebody dying because they are poor and black or poor and white or because of whatever they are ... that erases everything that's great about this country.

-TMcGraw

http://www.wm3.org/splash.php

pikey

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Re: How Do You Feel About Affirmative Action?
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2006, 04:29:34 PM »
I support AA as a means of increasing diversity in the legal profession.  I recognise that schools use their discretion to increase diversity across the border (racial, socio-economic, geographic, etc), and fully support the use of 'diversity policies'.  I don't agree that URM's should receive an automatic LSAT or GPA boost, but that adcomms should take their background into account when evaluating the hard factors vs soft factors.  Unfortunately, adcomms sometimes use an automatic boost as a substitute for a thorough evaluation of a URM's application.

As a personal example, I am a URM who is consistently scoring in the mid-170s in practice LSATs (we'll see how i really do in 2 weeks).  Should I get any type of LSAT boost?  No.  Can I add diversity to a ls class?  Yes!  I'm from a pseudo Caribbean island, have attended school in 3 different countries, have visited numerous countries, and can speak on the experience of being a black, foreign female.  It's the holy trinity of minorities. ;)

I agree that you can add diversity to a class.  However, so can my friend who immigrated from Bulgaria (got his citizenship a few years ago), paid his way through school, and can speak seven languages.  Unfortunately, he is put in the same category as every other Caucasian. 
I doubt that. If so, that shouldn't be the case, because he is not of a similar background to most white people.


Well, it was the the case, as he got into the schools that his numbers would dictate if he were considered to be a non-URM. 

One example does not dictate the entire process.  How are you to know that his 'soft factors' didn't help him.  According to Anna Ivey those in the 'murky middle' have the greatest control over which letter they get.  Obviously he got the letter he was looking for.  The higher up you go, the more applicants you have that have the same 'soft factors' as you.  Maybe his reach schools had a decent number of apps who speak mulitiple languages and are from foreign countries.
The noobs are so into themsleves you'd think they allready have offers at Tool, Tool, feminine hygiene product & Dumbass LLC

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John Galt

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Re: How Do You Feel About Affirmative Action?
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2006, 07:37:27 PM »
I support AA as a means of increasing diversity in the legal profession.  I recognise that schools use their discretion to increase diversity across the border (racial, socio-economic, geographic, etc), and fully support the use of 'diversity policies'.  I don't agree that URM's should receive an automatic LSAT or GPA boost, but that adcomms should take their background into account when evaluating the hard factors vs soft factors.  Unfortunately, adcomms sometimes use an automatic boost as a substitute for a thorough evaluation of a URM's application.

As a personal example, I am a URM who is consistently scoring in the mid-170s in practice LSATs (we'll see how i really do in 2 weeks).  Should I get any type of LSAT boost?  No.  Can I add diversity to a ls class?  Yes!  I'm from a pseudo Caribbean island, have attended school in 3 different countries, have visited numerous countries, and can speak on the experience of being a black, foreign female.  It's the holy trinity of minorities. ;)


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