Law School Discussion

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waitlisted

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« on: May 26, 2006, 04:02:49 PM »
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Hybrid Vigor

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So I've interviewed for a bunch of these jobs, and obviously the groups you'd expect to be represented are represented.  There are *few* Hispanics and whatnot compared to total percentage of population, but I've met *no* African Americans. 

However, I've met quite a few French-speaking Africans--who are just as qualified as anybody else.  These are fields where AA would never take place (the return on diversity is much less than the return on quality of employee).  But really there's little discrimination, as French-speaking Africans have no trouble finding jobs.  Why the dichotomy?

 ???

the presence of French speaking Africans =/= no discrimination against African Americans

And I'm not so sure if there are so few. I know a lot of cats in banking, and both my roommates (Black American females) are consultants for one of the top consulting firms. It may just be where you work and who you've been exposed to.

Furthermore, your post implies that African Americans may not be as qualified (you made it a point to say that the Africans are) and then you said theres no AA. So therefore, the answer as to why there are so few makes sense to me - there aren't as many qualified candidates and employers aren't willing to expand the hiring criteria to diversify the workforce. 

2Lacoste

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Hybrid Vigor

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O RLY?


Oh is this flame? I dunno trollicks schick. Lemme know if I fell for the bait and I'll just delete.

dbgirl

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I think he's serious, in an ultrawhite conservative sort of way.

| J |

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So I've interviewed for a bunch of these jobs, and obviously the groups you'd expect to be represented are represented.  There are *few* Hispanics and whatnot compared to total percentage of population, but I've met *no* African Americans. 

However, I've met quite a few French-speaking Africans--who are just as qualified as anybody else.  These are fields where AA would never take place (the return on diversity is much less than the return on quality of employee).  But really there's little discrimination, as French-speaking Africans have no trouble finding jobs.  Why the dichotomy?

 ???

Seeing as you've only presented anecdotal evidence, I don't think you've made enough of a case that your question is even valid.  Therefore, no response will be forthcoming from me unless you can present more information to back up your assertion that African Americans are under-represented in those fields.  I'm in the I.T. field, by the way.

John Galt

this reminds me of an LSAT flaw in logical reasoning....

Burning Sands, Esq.

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\ Every black person I've seen has been of African descent \

I'm sorry I couldn't resist...

is this like the understatement of the century or what?


hmm....this seems too odd of a question to pose here. so, i won't respond.

hope you find the answer you're lookin' 4.

Hybrid Vigor

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i don't think that, for example, whether or not one can use Java+*nix/SQL+Excel/{i still don't really understand what consultants do} has anything to do with race.  and I don't think expanding hiring criteria is a good idea if a specific candidate doesn't have the background to pick up the skills quickly

hmmm... so you're saying it's the same as the law school effect by talking about ones at top firms?  there are quite a few who are qualified, but all of them end up at top firms due to AA so there are none at more middling concerns like the ones I applied to?

and I can't talk to my impressions of the qualifications of African Americans, frankly because I haven't been interviewed by any--as I said the French-speakers I've met seem very bright.  but i was really surprised to find none, as these are sorta the basic standard entry-level white collar positions.

You're right, earning those skills doesn't have anything specifically to do with race.
As far as specific programming skills, that is probably a supply chain problem...no Black computer science majors to start with. Everyone knows that minorities are underrepresented in science/tech majors. It starts even before the secondary school level due to disparity in educations received at this level. I started off a CS major and ended up switching...common story.

Expansion of hiring criteria - this may have the most application in consulting, which as you know isn't based as much on a specific skill set, but on an ability to problem solve. If a candidate can do that, the other stuff can be learned. Obviously, if you can't program in a language needed for a programmer positon, you shouldn't be in that position. But in a lot of fields, the "qualifications" are really not that cut and dried. Grades and test scores serve as quick and dirty ways to weed out candidates, even though they may not be the BEST way to so. Many times, minority candidates don't have the grades or what have you to get an interview or any sort of consideration. An example of expanding criteria to diversify would be to place MORE emphasis on an interview and evidence of real world problem solving (like leading an organization) rather than emphasize grades.

For the record, I think more holistic approaches to hiring benefit everyone, not just minorities. It would bring in more socio economic diversity among Whites, and more ethnic diversity among Asians (East Asians dominate while Filapinos and Cambodians lag behind). This is the argument made in school admissions - why can't they look beyond the numbers for qualifications that aren't based on a 4 hour test. For minorities, they do, but for white candidiates, they use these arbitrary cutoffs in order to make their jobs easier. It just doesn't have the decreasing effect on white (or Asian) enrollment that it has on Black/Latino enrollment, so there isn't as much complaint. When it does start to do that, believe that they'll change the criteria. Everyone has read that New Yorker article on how Harvard "expanded" its admission criteria once Jewish enrollment went through the roof...they started to consider characteristics like leadership to make sure that WASPs still got the nod. That is in effect what happens with minorities.


This discussion is gonna take a turn for the worse, and when it does, I appreciate someone quoting me so I can delete this thread from my unreads.