Starting Salaries

[shae]

I meant mean average, but median would work too. 

youre pretty out of touch.  you do realize nyc market is $145k?

No need to be a prick.  I obviously don't know the market for NYC lawyers.  That's kind of why I was asking.  I still don't think that it's 145 for the average.  I'm sure that there are some that top out around 160, but for an average?  I can't see anyway that if you take the entire graduating class for any law school that it would be 145.  Maybe I'm wrong.  I guess that would qualify me as being "out of touch."

average = mean, median, or mode... I take it you meant mean?  Median is probably more useful, but either way.

Let's say that any Harvard student can get biglaw somewhere. 

NYC market = 145k
I think DC is at 145
Philadelphia = 125
Atlanta = 115
Houston = 125?
Boston = 125
Chicago and SF, I'm not sure if it's gone up yet, it was 125, but they've started going up everywhere (hence 145 now being market in NYC)
Charlotte = 100

Depending on where you go, yes, salary will depend on how you finish in your class, and salary will definitely depend on location... but even in smaller legal markets like Minneapolis, Portland (OR), and Seattle, there are firms starting at over 100K.

This is biglaw, mind you.  Medium sized firms pay less.

I don't know why UT's starting salary couldn't be 115K.  Starting salary in Austin is 125, Houston and Dallas probably are too, and top Texas students can get jobs in any city, including the higher paying jobs in New York, DC, and the ones that are available in California.

market in houston is (was) 115k, unless it increased recently

[SanchoPanzo]

This site has some law firm salary info

http://www.studyworld.com/law_firm_salaries.htm

[yiplong]

Hey, that's my view too, but I actually found some dictionaries stating otherwise, i.e. that average applies to all three

Median, Mean(average) and Mode are three different values describing three different aspects of a sample.  They are related insomuch that they serve similiar purpose.  Median and mean are usually close to each other, that is, if the median is 145k, it is unlikely for the mean to be only 80k. 
On the other hand, 'mean' and 'average' are the exact same thing.  The turn mean is used more in stats, while average is more frequently use in everyday life.

[jiggedyjared]

Does anyone not understand what average, mean, median, and mode are?  I think we can stop going through the explanations.  Originally I said average (meaning mean OR median) because they should give about the same thing.  Median is probably more correct.  However, let's be clear... one does not have any sort of intellectual, mathematical, or statistical bragging rights because he or she knows the various meanings of "average."  That merely means you remember your intro to stat class.

[yiplong]

Does anyone not understand what average, mean, median, and mode are?  I think we can stop going through the explanations.  Originally I said average (meaning mean OR median) because they should give about the same thing.  Median is probably more correct.  However, let's be clear... one does not have any sort of intellectual, mathematical, or statistical bragging rights because he or she knows the various meanings of "average."  That merely means you remember your intro to stat class.

Average equals mean as far as math is concerned, it does not have 'various meanings', it only has a single, clear meaning.
The average is not the same as the median, and they do not give about the same thing. 
I agree that one does not have any sort of intellectual, mathematical, or statistical bragging rights because he or she knows the various meanings of "average." (let me point out againt, lest you make the same mistake again, average in our case, does not have various meanings). This knowledge is supposed to be so basic that most high school grads should know. 

[| J |]

Does anyone not understand what average, mean, median, and mode are?  I think we can stop going through the explanations.  Originally I said average (meaning mean OR median) because they should give about the same thing.  Median is probably more correct.  However, let's be clear... one does not have any sort of intellectual, mathematical, or statistical bragging rights because he or she knows the various meanings of "average."  That merely means you remember your intro to stat class.

Average equals mean as far as math is concerned, it does not have 'various meanings', it only has a single, clear meaning.
The average is not the same as the median, and they do not give about the same thing. 
I agree that one does not have any sort of intellectual, mathematical, or statistical bragging rights because he or she knows the various meanings of "average." (let me point out againt, lest you make the same mistake again, average in our case, does not have various meanings). This knowledge is supposed to be so basic that most high school grads should know. 

e discrepency between the mean and the median, the median is often the more representati

I'll add to yiplong's comments, because it seems few of you had any sort of engineering, finance, or business major.  The reason we look at both mean and median is that they provide different information about a sample.  The mean is the number we often look to to find the center of a sample, but it is very easy to skew a sample average by throwing in a few high or low numbers.    To ascertain whether the mean is representative of the sample, we look at the median, which is the number in the exact middle of the sample, or the average of the two middle numbers if the sample size is even numbered.  Ideally, you'll look at both when trying to determine whether a salary is representative.

[UVA1l]

Here is information posted by the law firms themselves.  This is a very helpful webpage to see what is out there for jobs.
They have salaries, number of people hired, what schools they go to in order to interview, and contact information. 
http://www.nalpdirectory.com

It is cool too because you can see how many of these firms come to your school.  This will probably not be an exhaustive list because smaller firms and a lot of regional firms west of the Mississippi don't register, but it can still give you a good idea.

By the way, ALMOST everyone who was willing to do biglaw that I know can get AT LEAST 125 from UVa.  The only reason almost every single person doesn't get that much is self selection.  I would guess that this is even more so the reality at Harvard.

A lot of places have raised salaries there are firms in Houston and Dallas paying 130+ in DE people are getting 130-145 and some national firms pay their attorneys in secondary markets the firm wide salary (Fish and Richardson Dallas, Atlanta, and elsewhere Wilson Sonsini Salt Lake City etc. there are a few like this) 

At top schools it is surprisingly possible to get a very high paying job.

[gillesthegreat]

Nice to see you're bringing new arguments to this side discussion.

Now, if I ask you what the average BMI of males age 30 in the city of New York, there would be many possible correct answers, all equally valid? Is that it now? You cited earlier wikipedia; if I go change it right now to say that the definition of average is only mean and not others measures of central tendency, would that convince you? Most likely not, so I think we can agree to disregard that source. I actually checked other dictionaries (with onelook.com), and there is certainly no consensus.

[yiplong]

Oh. My. God.

Average refers to a number that typifies a set of numbers.  It can be measured in a various number of ways, the three most common being mean, median, or mode.  Depending on the set, and depending on the need, any one of the three or more may be most helpful.

Average is another name for the mean, while median and mode are different concepts.  Check with your high school math teacher please, not wikipedia.  I hope you cite more authorative sources than an online body of text in your future practice of law, otherwise your client would be quite unfortunate to have you as his  legal representative. 

[J D]

Hey, all I pointed out is that, IN COMMON USAGE, when you say the "average" of a set of numerical data, it is almost always taken to be the arithmetic mean.  This seems to support a presumption that, if you mean something else by "average" then you should be more precise, and specify whether you mean "median," "mode," etc. (especially since the technical definition is ambiguous anyway).