Change of race

[guptroop]

So, are desi's URMs?

[Bisquick]

no, best case they are neutral, worst case (depending on field) they are ORM's

[guptroop]

Let's talk about that.  What determines whether someone is a minority?  And why is it that usually the white people get to decide these things?  Is it about money or race?  If it is about race, is it about actual race or the perception of race?  Why is someone who is, say, 1/2 white and 1/2 black considered black?

Issues of race get me going a little bit.  Coming from Texas, I have experience some racism of one form or another.  Usuall, it manifests itself into some kind of "Invisible Man" type thing.  It is funny that white people think they have a clue about what it is like to be a minority in America, especially first gens and second gens.

[Bisquick]

a) a minority is a minority... its statistics.
b) a URM is a minority that occurs at a lower rate in a given population (i.e. law students) than that minority occurs in the overall population
c) someone who is mixed can self identify as whatever they decide.  the smart move would be to identify as the URM half on college applications to get the benefit of AA

No one, including whites, "decides" who is a minority.... its math.

[guptroop]

Then why aren't Desi's minorities?

[Bisquick]

They are a minority!  I strongly suspect they are not URMs.  There is a big difference.  Under Represented Minorities are represented at a lower percentage in a particular population than their percentage in the population.  These numbers are made up, but suppose blacks were 20% of the population.  If they were substantially less than 20% of the population at law schools (i.e. 10%) they would be a URM for law school.  If Asian/Asian Americans make up say 5% of the population and 20% of engineering graduate students, they are still a minority, but are definately not URM's and under the table can actually be treated as overrepresented minorities (I do think it is harder for Asians to get engineering funding than Caucasians, now).

My wife is a member of the majority (caucasian born in the US), but is a URM for purposes of engineering schools because there are ridiculously few female American Citizens electing advanced engineering study.

Technically (though I'm not suggesting they should get AA) whites are a URM in the NBA but are definately not a minority in the general population.

Make sense?

[guptroop]

Perfect sense.  You should be a lawyer.  :-) 

Except we're not considered minorities by the US government.  I think we're considered Caucasian, which only makes sense on a very fundamental level; and not at all for all practical purposes (ala, discrimination is about skin color and/or religion, etc).  I will contact MILE and get a good answer.  In the mean time, I appreciate your help clearing this up.  Nice discussion.

[Bisquick]

Perfect sense.  You should be a lawyer.  :-) 

Except we're not considered minorities by the US government.  I think we're considered Caucasian, which only makes sense on a very fundamental level; and not at all for all practical purposes (ala, discrimination is about skin color and/or religion, etc).  I will contact MILE and get a good answer.  In the mean time, I appreciate your help clearing this up.  Nice discussion.

If that is the case, I agree that it makes no sense.  I'm caucasian and have never seen anyone that has anything to do with Asia (unless you count some Russians or that strange group on the far northern islands of Japan) that is as pigment-challenged as myself.

[guptroop]

It has to do with the origin of the "Indian" people.  Aryans.  Most people don't know that.  Same thing goes for Iranians, which is why they aren't considered to be Arabs.  In high school, I put down Asian as a racial self-description, and my paper work came back describing me as oriental.  It actually had the word oriental on the official school document.  I realized then that people (in Texas at least) just don't have a clue.  It is actually pretty funny, now that I think about it.

[Leaf2001br]

So what is "black"?