Law School Discussion

Cooley has a JINGLE

un26

Re: Cooley has a JINGLE
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2007, 11:55:52 AM »


I wonder now that there 200+ law schools out there that what once used to be an prestigous profession is now a diploma mill. My friens who became doctors had to have certain grades/test scores. Here, if you have a sub 140 and 2.4 lsat you can still get a jd. At what point should the ABA quit opening up law school after law school so everyone can be an attorney. Maybe law schools should say -sorry, tough sh** like med schools for those who don't make a cutoff.

sorry, in my humble o

bamf

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Re: Cooley has a JINGLE
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2007, 11:59:50 AM »


I wonder now that there 200+ law schools out there that what once used to be an prestigous profession is now a diploma mill. My friens who became doctors had to have certain grades/test scores. Here, if you have a sub 140 and 2.4 lsat you can still get a jd. At what point should the ABA quit opening up law school after law school so everyone can be an attorney. Maybe law schools should say -sorry, tough sh** like med schools for those who don't make a cutoff.

sorry, in my humble o

You make a very good point.
Though not everyone who gets in gets the diploma.  My mother's best friend's son is a 1L at cooley and at a christmas party he was bragging about the number of people who have dropped out already ... I think he said 200 or so?  So I guess there is a small amount of reassurance.

Denny Crane

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Re: Cooley has a JINGLE
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2007, 12:01:02 PM »


I wonder now that there 200+ law schools out there that what once used to be an prestigous profession is now a diploma mill. My friens who became doctors had to have certain grades/test scores. Here, if you have a sub 140 and 2.4 lsat you can still get a jd. At what point should the ABA quit opening up law school after law school so everyone can be an attorney. Maybe law schools should say -sorry, tough sh** like med schools for those who don't make a cutoff.

sorry, in my humble o

Unfortunately the regulation of law schools is not nearly as stringent as it is for med school.  Though I believe the ABA is (slowly) beginning to crack down on "diploma mill" law schools who have bar passage rates substantially lower than the average for any given jurisdiction.  However this is happening at an incredibly slow rate, and it seems as if I get emails daily from diploma mills that spring up overnight.

If someone gets into med school, regardless of where they go, they get respect because it takes a high-set minimum set of credentials to get in.  Not the case with law school, which is why law applicants are such prestige whores and med school applicants are ecstatic just to get into ANY med school.

un26

Re: Cooley has a JINGLE
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2007, 01:33:21 PM »


True - It seems like the ABA would care and quit approving so many law schools. Isn't there 45,000 new lawyers every year now. Can the market candle handle it? Is it wrong to tell people NO, you can't have a jd degree w/a sub 145 lsat and 2.1 gpa or should everyone be entitled to a degree. Just curious - maybe this should be another thread.

ptown

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Re: Cooley has a JINGLE
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2007, 02:05:41 PM »


True - It seems like the ABA would care and quit approving so many law schools. Isn't there 45,000 new lawyers every year now. Can the market candle handle it? Is it wrong to tell people NO, you can't have a jd degree w/a sub 145 lsat and 2.1 gpa or should everyone be entitled to a degree. Just curious - maybe this should be another thread.

I think the need to pass the bar takes a lot of the detriment out of the law shool diploma mill.  You might have a ton of substandard jds out there, but they wont pass the bar so who cares.  Also, it may not be to the level of med school, but I do think that you have to give anyone that gets accepted to an ABA law shool some credit, over the general populace at least.  Historically, only 50% of law school applicants are accepted anywhere, so while the lowest rungs of the accepted may not be the sharpest tools in the shed by ivy league standards, they do have to be somewhat intelligent to get to that point.

That said, the Cooley jingle was flippin hilarious, I nearly fell out of my seat at work.....

Butters Stotch

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Re: Cooley has a JINGLE
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2007, 02:24:33 PM »


True - It seems like the ABA would care and quit approving so many law schools. Isn't there 45,000 new lawyers every year now. Can the market candle handle it? Is it wrong to tell people NO, you can't have a jd degree w/a sub 145 lsat and 2.1 gpa or should everyone be entitled to a degree. Just curious - maybe this should be another thread.

I think needed to pass the bar takes a lot of the detriment out of the law shool diploma mill.  You might have a ton of substandard jds out there, but they wont pass the bar so who cares.  Also, it may not be to the level of med school, but I do think that you have to give anyone that gets accepted to an ABA law shool some credit, over the general populace at least.  Historically, only 50% of law school applicants are accepted anywhere, so while the lowest rungs of the accepted may not be the sharpest tools in the shed by ivy league standards, they do have to be somewhat intelligent to get to that point.


Good points.

I know that at least one recently-accredited law school (Barry) has a MUCH higher bar-passage rate than schools like Cooley and Thomas Jefferson, which have had ABA accreditation for years.

Thistle

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Re: Cooley has a JINGLE
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2007, 02:30:55 PM »
I am very much a prestige whore, but even I don't look down on a school for having a student population w/ a student body that has a lower average LSAT or GPA.  I do look down on Cooley for thinking it's hotter sh!t than it actually is.  The reason it gets so much flack is because of its absurd rankings that clearly are flawed not because of their rankings methodology but because of the clear conflict of interest that exists from having a law school produce a rankings in which it is included.  Such a conflict of interest undoubtedly raises some eyebrows, especially when Cooley is set to benefit so generously from them.


us news and world report is owned by a harvard law grad.

you'd think it would be first

Denny Crane

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Re: Cooley has a JINGLE
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2007, 02:34:23 PM »
I am very much a prestige whore, but even I don't look down on a school for having a student population w/ a student body that has a lower average LSAT or GPA.  I do look down on Cooley for thinking it's hotter sh!t than it actually is.  The reason it gets so much flack is because of its absurd rankings that clearly are flawed not because of their rankings methodology but because of the clear conflict of interest that exists from having a law school produce a rankings in which it is included.  Such a conflict of interest undoubtedly raises some eyebrows, especially when Cooley is set to benefit so generously from them.


us news and world report is owned by a harvard law grad.

you'd think it would be first

The person in charge of USNews' rankings (schools, hospitals, etc) is a grad of my UG, and yet my UG hasn't sat at the top of our rankings since his appointment (we've maxed out at being second... blech). 

ptown

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Re: Cooley has a JINGLE
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2007, 02:37:04 PM »
Even as far as condemning schools like cooley for admitting all sorts of students just to take their money when they drop out, there are much much worse schools out there.

For instance one of my wife's friends from high school started a PsyD program with an unnamed online university (it is accredited as an institution, but not by the APA so it is unlikely that such a graduate could work as a psychologist).  Did I mention that this student didn't even go to undergrad?  Now THAT is a low-down-dirty-scam-of-a-diploma-mill.  Anyone can go and get a PhD, no application, no credentials, just tuition checks.

By comparison, Cooley is a dream, it is actually a legitimate school where you have to take actual classes and actually GO TO COLLEGE before attending....

BTW, Cooley sucks :)

Denny Crane

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Re: Cooley has a JINGLE
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2007, 02:39:46 PM »
Even as far as condemning schools like cooley for admitting all sorts of students just to take their money when they drop out, there are much much worse schools out there.

For instance one of my wife's friends from high school started a PsyD program with an unnamed online university (it is accredited as an institution, but not by the APA so it is unlikely that such a graduate could work as a psychologist).  Did I mention that this student didn't even go to undergrad?  Now THAT is a low-down-dirty-scam-of-a-diploma-mill.  Anyone can go and get a PhD, no application, no credentials, just tuition checks.

By comparison, Cooley is a dream, it is actually a legitimate school where you have to take actual classes and actually GO TO COLLEGE before attending....

BTW, Cooley sucks :)

Again, the flack Cooley gets is because of its rankings.  You don't see other similarly "low-status" law schools getting all this flack (at least nowhere near the extent that Cooley gets it).

For a time I remember Southwestern Law was hated on around these parts almost as much as Cooley, but that seems to have died down in the last year.