Law School Discussion

"You seem distracted, like you've got a foot out the door."

kmpnj

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Re: "You seem distracted, like you've got a foot out the door."
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2006, 10:52:21 PM »
At least before I had undergrad to keep me occupied.  Now that I've graduated I only have my stupid waitering job to keep me busy.  Oh well, 9 weeks until I give notice.

SplitFinger

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Re: "You seem distracted, like you've got a foot out the door."
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2006, 05:57:43 AM »
So how important is it to stay at a job because you'd feel guilty to leave after only being there 4 months? After another year (if I defer) I will have stayed long enough to feel that I'd fulfilled my obligations.  Should I only consider myself, and my interests, or stay in the job? Keep in mind I enjoy the job, and I'll be able to save some money, and they've agreed to defer me. 

If something happened there and they suddenly had to get rid of some people, do you think they'd hesitate to screw you over because you'd only been there four months?  Of course not.

Speaking as someone who's been in the working world for many years, your one and only consideration should be looking after yourself, because nobody else is going to be looking out for you.  Now, part of looking after yourself is to act in a professional manner, which includes stuff like giving sufficient notice when leaving a position, and so forth.  Your only worry in leaving a job after a short time would be that it is probably going to burn a bridge with that particular employer, and you probably won't be able to use them as a reference.  However, since you are (presumably) going to be switching to a legal career, that really shouldn't hurt you at all.

In short, it is unwise to behave as if you have any extra obligation to a job, because they sure aren't going to behave as if they have any extra obligation towards you when push comes to shove.

Re: "You seem distracted, like you've got a foot out the door."
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2006, 07:22:04 AM »
Jeez, I'm glad I don't work for you!  Are you in the military?  Not all offices are this strictly hierarchal, and frankly, it makes it more fun to go to work when everyone is friendly with each other.  My second-to-last boss was one of my best friends... this actually led to me working harder, because I admired her and wanted to impress her. 

That's awesome... in a government agency or large corporate beauracracy that can't be outsourced or downsized (H.R.?), some kind of environment where job security is infinite and nobody has to potentially make decisions that could hurt the "fun" that their "best friends" are having.  However, for the other 99.99% of office environments, where you may have to lay-off people or make other unpleasant decisions, it makes things easier for everybody to maintain a level of professional boundaries and avoid any disingenuous blurring of the lines.

Geeze, I'm not saying you should be the "Dilbert" boss and stop acting like a human being.  I'm just saying look at Steve Carrell's character in "The Office", most of the humor in that show comes comes from situations created by his inability to maintain boundaries.  A boss who tries to be people's best friend is no better than a parent who tries to be their kid's best friend rather than their parent.  You end up freaked out that an underling might (gasp!) suspect you'll leave the company someday.


stc34

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Re: "You seem distracted, like you've got a foot out the door."
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2006, 07:48:07 AM »
So how important is it to stay at a job because you'd feel guilty to leave after only being there 4 months? After another year (if I defer) I will have stayed long enough to feel that I'd fulfilled my obligations.  Should I only consider myself, and my interests, or stay in the job? Keep in mind I enjoy the job, and I'll be able to save some money, and they've agreed to defer me. 

If something happened there and they suddenly had to get rid of some people, do you think they'd hesitate to screw you over because you'd only been there four months?  Of course not.

Speaking as someone who's been in the working world for many years, your one and only consideration should be looking after yourself, because nobody else is going to be looking out for you.  Now, part of looking after yourself is to act in a professional manner, which includes stuff like giving sufficient notice when leaving a position, and so forth.  Your only worry in leaving a job after a short time would be that it is probably going to burn a bridge with that particular employer, and you probably won't be able to use them as a reference.  However, since you are (presumably) going to be switching to a legal career, that really shouldn't hurt you at all.

In short, it is unwise to behave as if you have any extra obligation to a job, because they sure aren't going to behave as if they have any extra obligation towards you when push comes to shove.


Let's just say it's a non-profit organization, and I can assure you they won't fire me.  Not because I'm great but just because they won't.  Also, this job is associated with my future career goals in law.  So burning this bridge would sort of hurt my goals.

orky13

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Re: "You seem distracted, like you've got a foot out the door."
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2006, 08:25:40 AM »
I would quit when you need to. If they love you, they love you, and if they expect great things from you, you leaving for a law degree will only make you more valuable.

fuwaf

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Re: "You seem distracted, like you've got a foot out the door."
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2006, 09:13:08 AM »
If something happened there and they suddenly had to get rid of some people, do you think they'd hesitate to screw you over because you'd only been there four months?  Of course not.

Speaking as someone who's been in the working world for many years, your one and only consideration should be looking after yourself, because nobody else is going to be looking out for you.

I agree. Not that you should be constantly running around and flaking out on things, but leaving a job to go to law school is not a frivolous thing.

People have got to step back and remember sometimes the reason why we work: to get money. And why people employ us: they need something done and can have us do it in order to make a profit for themselves. It's not like a marriage or something.

Exactly.  My supervisor and boss have taken it SO personally when people have left their jobs.  So what?!  They want to move on or up... deal with it.

Re: "You seem distracted, like you've got a foot out the door."
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2006, 09:21:21 AM »
Jeez, I'm glad I don't work for you!  Are you in the military?  Not all offices are this strictly hierarchal, and frankly, it makes it more fun to go to work when everyone is friendly with each other.  My second-to-last boss was one of my best friends... this actually led to me working harder, because I admired her and wanted to impress her. 

That's awesome... in a government agency or large corporate beauracracy that can't be outsourced or downsized (H.R.?), some kind of environment where job security is infinite and nobody has to potentially make decisions that could hurt the "fun" that their "best friends" are having.  However, for the other 99.99% of office environments, where you may have to lay-off people or make other unpleasant decisions, it makes things easier for everybody to maintain a level of professional boundaries and avoid any disingenuous blurring of the lines.

Geeze, I'm not saying you should be the "Dilbert" boss and stop acting like a human being.  I'm just saying look at Steve Carrell's character in "The Office", most of the humor in that show comes comes from situations created by his inability to maintain boundaries.  A boss who tries to be people's best friend is no better than a parent who tries to be their kid's best friend rather than their parent.  You end up freaked out that an underling might (gasp!) suspect you'll leave the company someday.



Let's just say it's a non-profit organization, and I can assure you they won't fire me.  Not because I'm great but just because they won't.  Also, this job is associated with my future career goals in law.  So burning this bridge would sort of hurt my goals.

Hey, all this is true for my job, too!  I don't work in government, but let's just say that from the people on this board it's clear that demand for my industry won't be diminishing anytime soon... so downsizing isn't an issue.  People get fired only if they're sucky... since I've been here, the only person canned was my last boss, who was utterly incapable of dealing with people.  She also skipped all the office social functions, which was definitely noticed.

Different management styles obviously go over better with different types of people, so I'm sure that we'll have to agree to disagree.  All I can go on is my own experiences in the workforce.  I've had three bosses. and am by far the most happy working under my current boss (the first one had a serious drug problem, so I guess he's an outlier).  I think the problem with Steve Carrell's character is that he tries to act cool when he's clearly not.  But my boss now is truly a fun, cool guy... I look forward to weekly staff meetings.  What little motivation I have left for my job is entirely because of him...  in the end, I think people work for PEOPLE, not for the job.  You can be friends with your staff and still earn their respect.

I agree on the parent/child front (I've seen too many friends with permanent damage from the parents who think they're "friends"), but I don't think it's an apt analogy for a work relationship between two adults.

Re: "You seem distracted, like you've got a foot out the door."
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2006, 10:38:07 AM »
I don't work in government, but let's just say that demand for my industry won't be diminishing anytime soon... so downsizing isn't an issue.  People get fired only if they're sucky... since I've been here, the only person canned was my last boss, who was utterly incapable of dealing with people.  She also skipped all the office social functions, which was definitely noticed.

You are illustrating my point.  You work in an environment where job security is not an issue, enabling people to work and function in ways entirely different than where job security IS an issue.  I come from the field of software engineering, where tsumani-like boom and bust cycles and enormous waves of layoffs are daily facts of life.  It leads to a different perspective you might want to think about.

It's great to have solid personal relationships with the people who work for you.  However, it's more important to maintain (through responsible boundaries) a careful separation between the "personal" and "professional" sides of those relationships.  That is because a "professional relationship" often involves having to make decisions that can strain or destroy a "personal relationship", and the inverse is true as well.  This is why nepotism is universally condemned as an unprofessional, "Bad ThingTM".

When everything is roses with your professional environment, it's a natural temptation to relax those boundaries and worry more about people "skipping social functions".  However, if the business circumstances or economic winds blow in a different direction, it can be CATASTROPHIC for your professional and personal relationships if you've casually built them like straw huts on a sandy beach.  Start downsizing, and you'll get a more honest assement of how sincere those personal relationships really are.

Of course, we're both being extremists.  My career history makes me the professional equivalent of a desert nomad, hardened by the stuggle for survival and always ready for war with a neighbor.  Your job experiences makes you like a carefree member of the royal court, dining among the King and Queen with a fur robe and giant turkey leg in hand.  Up and downs in the legal profession may not be as severe as what I'm used to, but they do occur and are more severe than that to which you're accustomed.  The most healthy perspective is probably somewhere in between where you and I are currently.

Re: "You seem distracted, like you've got a foot out the door."
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2006, 11:52:11 AM »
I'm on Capitol Hill and I told my boss today that I'm leaving on the 30th of May.
His actualy response was "ARGH!!!"

Who is he John Arbuckle?!?!!

I got a kick out of that!

stc34

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Re: "You seem distracted, like you've got a foot out the door."
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2006, 12:04:49 PM »
I'm not trying to decide between quitting now or waiting till August 2006.  I'm trying to decide between going to Law school in fall 2006, meaning I'd leave my job this summer, or fall 2007, meaning I'd leave after another year.  Plus, my law school even agreed to defer my scholarship.