Law School Discussion

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veg

Re: Anyone here a pacifist? Explain why here.
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2006, 08:22:19 PM »

who is Stalin?

the guy who had my past self assassinated after exile.

nihilism is one step up the annoying ladder from solipsism.

HK

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Re: Anyone here a pacifist? Explain why here.
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2006, 05:29:08 AM »
One cannot look at what has simply happened as a result of violence, but they must look at what has happened as a result of the THREAT of violence.

For example, Singapore's citizens commit very few crimes because the punishments are extremely harsh. I don't think it means Singaporean are innately less prone to crime, it just means that they know they are likely to get caught and punished harshly.

By that same token, having a powerful military can act as a deterrent.

Oh yeah, and just to clear things up, if the US hadn't entered world war 2, the world would have been VERY different. Most of Europe would have spent a lot of time under and would still be under German rule. And Japan would have probably held onto a huge chunk of Asia and continued its atrocities.

redemption

Re: Anyone here a pacifist? Explain why here.
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2006, 05:49:22 AM »

who is Stalin?

the guy who had my past self assassinated after exile.

nihilism is one step up the annoying ladder from solipsism.

Very nice  :D

The Dread Pirate Roberts

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Re: Anyone here a pacifist? Explain why here.
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2006, 06:02:05 AM »
I'm a pacifist personally, but let's face it, it's just common sense to be a pacifist when you're a wussy 5'1" girl with no martial arts skill or experience with weapons.  If someone was beating up my mother/daughter/girlfriend/whatever, throwing my body between them and their attacker and/or begging would be the most effective thing I could personally do.

I do think that it's powerfully rare that violence has an end that's better than nonviolent means would have been.

That said, fictional violence is fun.   :D

->Soon

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Re: Anyone here a pacifist? Explain why here.
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2006, 06:09:48 AM »
I'm a pacifist personally, but let's face it, it's just common sense to be a pacifist when you're a wussy 5'1" girl with no martial arts skill or experience with weapons.  If someone was beating up my mother/daughter/girlfriend/whatever, throwing my body between them and their attacker and/or begging would be the most effective thing I could personally do.

I do think that it's powerfully rare that violence has an end that's better than nonviolent means would have been.

That said, fictional violence is fun.   :D

take krav maga.

killer workout and self defense.

sarmstrong806

Re: Anyone here a pacifist? Explain why here.
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2006, 12:46:52 PM »
I have a concealed handgun license and if I had to use lethal force to eliminate an immediate threat to my life or that of another, with no alternatives, I would.

Re: Anyone here a pacifist? Explain why here.
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2006, 01:29:56 PM »
Haven't read the thread, so I'm just jumping in here, but I'd say I'm on the verge of pacifism.  People who believe that violence is necessary or effective differ from people committed to nonviolence in one important way.  Believers in violence have a distrust of people, while believers in nonviolence (according to Gandhi) have a living faith in God and a living faith in human kind.

veg

Re: Anyone here a pacifist? Explain why here.
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2006, 01:38:23 PM »
red: i'm glad someone liked it :) i still like my second part of that post more. trotsky jokes are old.

stan: i think there's more types of pacifists than that.

i'd also argue that for a nonviolent movement to really succeed you still need the threat of violence in the background to goad the moderates on the opposing side into giving you what you want. :)

Re: Anyone here a pacifist? Explain why here.
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2006, 01:54:07 PM »
i'd also argue that for a nonviolent movement to really succeed you still need the threat of violence in the background to goad the moderates on the opposing side into giving you what you want. :)

Keep reading.  I felt that way for a long time (even after reading his autobiography), but don't believe it anymore (now that I'm well into Satyagraha and taking my sweet time with it too).  That is not to say that if you keep reading you'll agree (I really am not that condescending or conceited), but just that I doubt anyone would disagree with your statement without reading quite a bit about the philosophy of non-violence.  It is a radical enough notion that people just do not arrive at it easily. 

But besides, non-violence is not just a means to an end, it is a different means to a different end.  As Gandhi put it, you cannot grow roses by planting weeds.  If you want a society devoid of violence, you must conduct a non-violent revolution.  And not out of necessity, but out of choice.  The threat of violence might be an easier way of bringing about what you want, but not if what you want is a lasting peace.  If that is what you want, then as difficult as non-violence is, it is the only way.

Alamo

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Re: Anyone here a pacifist? Explain why here.
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2006, 02:03:40 PM »
I doubt anyone would disagree with your statement without reading quite a bit about the philosophy of non-violence.  It is a radical enough notion that people just do not arrive at it easily. 

Is any position that requires such extensive knowledge truly viable in a democratic world in which the vast majority of people don't read for pleasure, let alone to attain knowledge?  I love pacifism as a principle in the same way that I love communism in principle, but either our world isn't ready for it yet (how can we make it more ready?) or it never will be.

I'm certainly not the kind of guy who pulls the wings off of insects for fun, and I think that violence is often used in excess, but the idea of eliminating all violence in the world through a grass-roots movement to simply stop harming each other seems a bit impractical and naive to me.