Law School Discussion

"National", "Semi-National" and "Regional" Schools

ronlaw604

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"National", "Semi-National" and "Regional" Schools
« on: April 06, 2006, 08:47:16 PM »
By my definition:

"National" school = average graduate able to land a well-paid job in all markets.

"Semi-National" school = average graduate well respected in home region & neighboring states, also top portion (20%) of class able to locate jobs in most markets.

"Regional" school = average graduate respected in home city, but only very top of class (5%) able to locate good jobs in other markets.

Now, given these definitions, which schools fit into which group(s)?

From what I have read & heard, the T14 are clearly "National". Then the T15-30 are "Semi-National", and from there on down schools are primarily "Regional". After T75 employment prospects really begin to dwindle for the average graduate.

What do you guys think? Should the T30-T75 group be further broken down into more subgroups?

Also, are there any exceptions (eg Schools that are ranked high but mostly regional, or ranked lower but have good mobility)?


Thanks for the opinions

yiplong

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Re: "National", "Semi-National" and "Regional" Schools
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2006, 08:59:02 PM »
coming up with ways to separate schools into different brackets is a job for people at USNEWS, we need not trouble with it.

ronlaw604

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Re: "National", "Semi-National" and "Regional" Schools
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2006, 09:20:25 PM »
coming up with ways to separate schools into different brackets is a job for people at USNEWS, we need not trouble with it.

That's not the intention of my post. I'm not attempting to frame "Tiers" here. My goal is to gather some opinions regarding how well a school degree travels.

In general, certain schools travel very well, some travel ok, some travel poorly. US News Rankings alone do not reflect this. I would like to know what others on this board think in terms of the mobility of certain schools.

Re: "National", "Semi-National" and "Regional" Schools
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2006, 09:27:35 PM »
the elite schools (i.e., the t14) have national reps. schools like vandy and texas are probably semi-national...really good, but not elite. most other schools are regional. but a region need not be a single state - for example, a school like bu/bc probably does pretty good in nyc...same for gw, etc.

imo, even the top schools are regional to a certain extent. by this i mean that it's probably easier to get an offer from mofo sf coming from boalt than from say, chicago...and certainly than from um, uva, penn, etc.

yiplong

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Re: "National", "Semi-National" and "Regional" Schools
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2006, 09:47:00 PM »
From what I have read & heard, the T14 are clearly "National". Then the T15-30 are "Semi-National", and from there on down schools are primarily "Regional". After T75 employment prospects really begin to dwindle for the average graduate.

That's probably a pretty good rule of thumb.  There are internal differences even there, e.g. HYS vs. Northwestern/Duke/Cornell.  Texas and Vanderbilt are probably more national than Emory, George Washington, Notre Dame, etc.  And with the USNWR rankings some schools are overvalued in terms of placement ability (Minnesota, Iowa) and some are undervalued (Hastings, Tulane), but your sort of tier system largely removes this problem.

I don't see how Hasting and Tulane's placement values are so great when compared to Minnesota and Iowa.  The later 2 schools are clearly superior to the first 2, not to mention they are clearly more national, which is the topic of this thread.

ronlaw604

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Re: "National", "Semi-National" and "Regional" Schools
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2006, 10:29:40 PM »
That's probably a pretty good rule of thumb.  There are internal differences even there, e.g. HYS vs. Northwestern/Duke/Cornell.  Texas and Vanderbilt are probably more national than Emory, George Washington, Notre Dame, etc.  And with the USNWR rankings some schools are overvalued in terms of placement ability (Minnesota, Iowa) and some are undervalued (Hastings, Tulane), but your sort of tier system largely removes this problem.

The "internal differences" u speak of, halfie, are what I'm trying to get at. ;D

For example, even in T15-T30...I have doubts regarding the national placement of certain schools. Which of the following 5 can be considered "semi-national"?

- Iowa
- Washington
- UIUC
- Boston U
- William & Mary


most other schools are regional. but a region need not be a single state
Good point 1Hell. So what about in a state such as California? We've got this:

34. Davis
43. Hastings
65. Loyola
65. USD

What is "regional" for these schools? Would u say pick Davis/Hastings for NoCal and Loyola/USD for the SoCal? Or does the 31-spot jump from Loyola to Davis make Davis stronger, even in SoCal?




ChlorasepticRelief

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Re: "National", "Semi-National" and "Regional" Schools
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2006, 10:59:06 PM »
From what I have read & heard, the T14 are clearly "National". Then the T15-30 are "Semi-National", and from there on down schools are primarily "Regional". After T75 employment prospects really begin to dwindle for the average graduate.

That's probably a pretty good rule of thumb.  There are internal differences even there, e.g. HYS vs. Northwestern/Duke/Cornell.  Texas and Vanderbilt are probably more national than Emory, George Washington, Notre Dame, etc.  And with the USNWR rankings some schools are overvalued in terms of placement ability (Minnesota, Iowa) and some are undervalued (Hastings, Tulane), but your sort of tier system largely removes this problem.

I don't see how Hasting and Tulane's placement values are so great when compared to Minnesota and Iowa.  The later 2 schools are clearly superior to the first 2, not to mention they are clearly more national, which is the topic of this thread.

Unfortunately, the topic of his post wasn't comparison. He didn't compare Iowa and Minnesota to Hastings and Tulane... he just said the first two were overvalued and the later two were undervalued.

Deus Ex Machina

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Re: "National", "Semi-National" and "Regional" Schools
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2006, 11:01:10 PM »
When I find the site again ..Ill post it here but until then you'll have to trust me

 Outside of the T14 there are a couple national reputation schools and as I recall Notre Dame is def one of them...their grads are everywhere

Deus Ex Machina

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Re: "National", "Semi-National" and "Regional" Schools
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2006, 11:06:32 PM »
here is one link not the one I remember but interesting

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2003job_national.shtml

Re: "National", "Semi-National" and "Regional" Schools
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2006, 11:18:56 PM »
I've also seen it claimed that Hastings has a very strong reputation in Hawaii, because it was the primary source of Hawaii lawyers at one point.