.

[redemption]

In order to do what? 

Prove that you have more than just a basic command of rhetoric.

Statements like, “It's a shortcut way of asking you to read his work as though you were an educated person, i.e. critically. Either way, it doesn't much matter to me” and, “Think while reading it and you'll discover it for yourself. Alternatively, skip the thinking part and take my word for it” suggest that you not only think that the facts on your side, but that you’re a critical thinker who has examined the evidence and, in this case, found Sowell’s arguments not only unconvincing, but incorrect. Considering that, to this point, you’ve only mustered the equivalent of, “he’s a conservative idiot who makes poor arguments while working for a distasteful organization,” it is difficult to consider you case for this as anything but rhetorical. I could say many of the same things about prominent liberals but, in light of statistics we just went through, that seems a tad weak. My best guess is that you have the typical opinions and a typical amount of research to back them up, i.e. none whatsoever.

To whom? To you? No, thanks. I've tried to help you out: you were intrigued by some claims that he's made; I've given you pointers on how to read him more critically (read "carefully"). You don't want to. Fine. No skin off my nose.

[magnumalv]

<---munches 

[alphadog24]

Thomas Sowell in his entirety, available in video, audio, and text transcripts at the bottom of the page. Listen or read before you make up your mind. His study on AA in 80 countries around the world shows that AA wherever it has been instated has never worked. That is, the stated goal of elevating a disadvantaged minority group though preferences has never been realized, and the AA that was promised to be temporary always continues into permanency (i.e. 25 years later looking back when Justice O' Connor said AA wont be needed 25 years from now, in the 1970's).

Mr. Sowell:

http://www.uncommonknowledge.org/900/902.html

[redemption]

#1. Thomas Sowell in his entirety, available in video, audio, and text transcripts at the bottom of the page. Listen or read before you make up your mind. His #2. study on AA in 80 countries around the world shows that AA wherever it has been instated #3. has never worked. That is, the stated goal of elevating a disadvantaged minority group though preferences has never been realized, and the AA that was promised to be temporary always #4. continues into permanency (i.e. 25 years later looking back when Justice O' Connor said AA wont be needed 25 years from now, in the 1970's).

Mr. Sowell:

http://www.uncommonknowledge.org/900/902.html

I see, so:

1. "Sowell in his entirety" turns out to be a short interview transcript put out by, of all organizations, the Olin Foundation;

2. His "study" of AA in 80 countries turns out to be his opinion of AA in these countries based on second-hand reports;

3. "has never worked" means that the most well-off of the discriminated-against group have gained the most from it. As though any untouchables in India would otherwise ever have occupied government positions; as though any aborigines would have otherwise worked office jobs in Australia; as though the proliferation of African Americans at Ivy League institutions and - the exemplar of Affirmative Action in the US - in the Armed Forces would have occured if Affirmative Action hadn't been in force, and as if institutional racism hadn't made AA necessary iin the first place. Give me a break. Some dude writes a book and common sense and common knowledge flies out the window?

4. "it continues into permanency" - 25 years+ is permanency, now? That the need for it continues is the fault of AA, and not the fault of widespread institutional racism in the way that grade school education funding, etc is allocated? You honestly buy that crock? Where's the evidence for that causal link? is it included in the trasncript? Did I miss it?

Good lord, people. There is an argument to be made against Affirmative Action, but Sowell's "arguments aren't it. It's pretty weak tea.

[John Galt]

I want to hear why Red thinks formally making racism against whites an institution through affirmative action will help end "subtle" institutional racism against blacks.

I don't want to speak for Red, but I don't think she's pro AA. At least not how it is currently contructed.

[George Jefferson²]

Best ever argument against AA:

Morpheus:I imagine that right now, you're feeling a bit like Alice. Hmm? Tumbling down the rabbit hole?
Neo: You could say that.
Morpheus: I see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he is expecting to wake up. Ironically, that's not far from the truth. Do you believe in fate, Neo?
Neo: No.
Morpheus: Why not?
Neo: Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life.
Morpheus: I know *exactly* what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain, but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life, that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Neo: The Matrix.
Morpheus: Do you want to know what it is?
Neo: Yes.
Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind.
---------------------------THE END--------------------------------
http://imdb.com/title/tt0133093/

[redemption]

I generally just lurk, as I just don't have the time or energy required to contribute substantially to many of these threads...especially in some of the other forums, but I'd agree with some of Breadboy's assertations concerning Ms. Red. I find her entertaining, and perhaps she doesn't feel she needs to "prove" herself to newer posters because she's obviously part of the LSD intelligensia.

So she's forgiven to post mostly fluff, highly cynical opinions on things that are just so goddamn obvious that it's insulting to her that others don't see it her way.

Oh wait...she reads 4 to 5 books a week. While spending a good portion of her day posting on this board. And (I presume) carrying a full time job, other hobbies, a social life, volunteering?

I suppose that's possible, if you spend 4 to 5 hours a day, every day, reading. Let's figure this out. 4 to 5 books a week. Average about 300 pages per book. That's 1200 to 1500 pages a week. Divide that by 7 days...that's 170 to 215 pages a day. If you read about 50 pages an hour (which I doubt, if one is to read "critically", as you imply that you do)...that's between 3 to 4.5 hours a day.

Yeah, it's possible. But I call bull. That's just me. I read a ton (god knows, I was a lit. and philosophy major in UG), but I never came near that amount of reading when having to read critically.

And no...this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I haven't read Sowell, and I know sh*t about him. But I'll admit that, and spare everyone the pretense and pomposity.

And the sad thing is...quite often you actually make some great points, but it's completely diluted by your sanctimonious presentation.

And what, praytell, is the "argument to be made against AA", in your eyes and words?

I think that you might want to find and ask a poster named ten8thsphere for some advice. We're pals now, but he was, at first, also mesmerized by my style and posted screeds like this one. Save yourself the effort. here's to our future pal-dom, putz 

[redemption]

I want to hear why Red thinks formally making racism against whites an institution through affirmative action will help end "subtle" institutional racism against blacks.

I don't want to speak for Red, but I don't think she's pro AA. At least not how it is currently contructed.

I think that the purpose of AA is a good one. I think that it could be improved. On big way to improve (read: change) it is to concentrate it on grade-school education. Currently, though, a second-best solution is better than no solution at all.

[magnumalv]

My next response to the fluff is forthcoming, but I'd just like to point out that red registered on December 10, 2005. I registered on February 20, 2005. I've been here much longer than most of you (I remember the last class of interesting posters), mostly lurking until I feel compelled to speak.

So, what, you want a cookie?

[John Galt]

the LSD intelligentsia, I feel like I'm in a franz fanon book or something.