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Condi Rice's trip to Iraq, proof positive of quagmire..

Fidelio

Condi Rice's trip to Iraq, proof positive of quagmire..
« on: April 02, 2006, 08:59:21 PM »
More evidence of buffoonery by the Bush administration in Iraq.

Thousands of Iraqis are protesting the recent visit of Condi Rice to Baghdad.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/14247858.htm

I am sure the Bush administration realized that Jafari is too buddy buddy with Iran, which his why Condi Rice is there now, drumming up support amongst Iraqi officials to push him out of power.

Yet this will result in another political blunder.  Not only will the Iraqis pretty much realize that the whole concept of "democracy" is a farce, it will give the Sunni insurgents and Muqtada al-Sadr more tools and ammo to air anti-coalition rhetoric. 

Jafari is highly popular with Iraqis.  This will also result in weakening our relationship with Iraq's shias, as if that hasn't already weakened. 

Regardless if Jafari stays or leaves, if there is another candidate, you can best bet that another Jafari clone will resume power, given Iraq's overwhelming shia majority and intimacy with Iran.  A majority who has been persecuted for years by Saddam and is eager to flex its political muscles. 





Re: Condi Rice's trip to Iraq, proof positive of quagmire..
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2006, 12:26:05 PM »
The headline to the story I read about this was something like "Rice Tells Iraqis to Learn to Govern Themselves." 

Yes.... the destruction of their country is clearly all the stupid Iraqis' fault.  If only they could learn to govern themselves!

Fidelio

Re: Condi Rice's trip to Iraq, proof positive of quagmire..
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2006, 02:18:09 PM »
The headline to the story I read about this was something like "Rice Tells Iraqis to Learn to Govern Themselves." 

Yes.... the destruction of their country is clearly all the stupid Iraqis' fault.  If only they could learn to govern themselves!

So from World War one till the recent Iraqi war they were just in limbo without any know how of governmental administration.  Hm.


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Re: Condi Rice's trip to Iraq, proof positive of quagmire..
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2006, 02:49:54 PM »
The headline to the story I read about this was something like "Rice Tells Iraqis to Learn to Govern Themselves." 

Yes.... the destruction of their country is clearly all the stupid Iraqis' fault.  If only they could learn to govern themselves!

So from World War one till the recent Iraqi war they were just in limbo without any know how of governmental administration.  Hm.



Not even from World War 2, from the Dawn of civilization they've been governing themselves.  How well is a different story.

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Re: Condi Rice's trip to Iraq, proof positive of quagmire..
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2006, 08:57:49 PM »
aye love how the liberal and corporate media puts you future "mouthpieces" ;) a spinning...

believe me when aye say that the usa and britain should be putting pressure on iraqis to get their shite together...as the vacuum continues...wood is splintering...

so be glad that the concern is there...

shiites...kurds...and sunnis do not want jafari to continue...sunnis and kurds did not want him at all and some parts of the shi'a bloc didn't want him either...(in my opinion) he had an edge because of al sadr...if the shiites (sciri) kurds and sunnis splinter away from the group supporting jafari...al sadr has enough strength to be a major thorn in the side of a united government or worse he can disrupt the south...and he can say that he was right.

aye think a key player in this matter is sistani...he could keep the groups together...

in any case it is good that rice was pushing them to continue the political process...al sadr is a problem and perhaps sistani can speak loud enough to urge jafari to step down.

obviously the vacuum is sucking the life out of a unified iraq...

tick-tock.

mp ms,rvs;;omh///movr/ :) ;)


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Re: Condi Rice's trip to Iraq, proof positive of quagmire..
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2006, 09:08:21 PM »
More evidence of buffoonery by the Bush administration in Iraq.

Thousands of Iraqis are protesting the recent visit of Condi Rice to Baghdad.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/14247858.htm

I am sure the Bush administration realized that Jafari is too buddy buddy with Iran, which his why Condi Rice is there now, drumming up support amongst Iraqi officials to push him out of power.

Yet this will result in another political blunder.  Not only will the Iraqis pretty much realize that the whole concept of "democracy" is a farce, it will give the Sunni insurgents and Muqtada al-Sadr more tools and ammo to air anti-coalition rhetoric. 

Jafari is highly popular with Iraqis.  This will also result in weakening our relationship with Iraq's shias, as if that hasn't already weakened. 

Regardless if Jafari stays or leaves, if there is another candidate, you can best bet that another Jafari clone will resume power, given Iraq's overwhelming shia majority and intimacy with Iran.  A majority who has been persecuted for years by Saddam and is eager to flex its political muscles. 






it is not just the usa...iraqis don't want him either...

Fidelio

Re: Condi Rice's trip to Iraq, proof positive of quagmire..
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2006, 09:23:25 AM »
aye love how the liberal and corporate media puts you future "mouthpieces" ;) a spinning...

believe me when aye say that the usa and britain should be putting pressure on iraqis to get their shite together...as the vacuum continues...wood is splintering...

so be glad that the concern is there...

shiites...kurds...and sunnis do not want jafari to continue...sunnis and kurds did not want him at all and some parts of the shi'a bloc didn't want him either...(in my opinion) he had an edge because of al sadr...if the shiites (sciri) kurds and sunnis splinter away from the group supporting jafari...al sadr has enough strength to be a major thorn in the side of a united government or worse he can disrupt the south...and he can say that he was right.

aye think a key player in this matter is sistani...he could keep the groups together...

in any case it is good that rice was pushing them to continue the political process...al sadr is a problem and perhaps sistani can speak loud enough to urge jafari to step down.

obviously the vacuum is sucking the life out of a unified iraq...

tick-tock.

mp ms,rvs;;omh///movr/ :) ;)



Perhaps many people can see Sistani as a key player, rightfully so.  Bush and his cronies recently sent Sistani a letter, Sistani's response? Didn't even open it. 

Yup.  According to Sistani's close aid, the reason why the Ayatollah didn't bother opening it was because of coalition forces meddling with Iraqi politics.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what he is referring to the West's attempt to push Jafaari out. 


Why do you think Condi Rice and Straw is over there trying to woo Sistani by using highly flattering language for Sistani in their speeches. 

For example, Straw has recently just been quoted as saying

"..without the remarkable spiritual guidance shown by his (Sistani) eminence, this country, for all the problems that it now faces, would not have in its hands the potential for a very much better future"     ::)

Is Sistani going to buy any of this brown nosing? Nope.


This also pretty much undermines notion that Shias are looking for Jafari to go.  Whatever Sistani says, it is gold.  In Shia theology, he wields the authority of a Marja, pretty much equivalent to the Pope for catholics (well not now, but during medieval era when Popes had more political sway). 

Again, whatever he says, Iraqi shias follow.  Don't buy it? Well there are ongoing protests and thousands are demonstrating on behalf of Jafaari for him to stay in power.

Albiet there may be a few who would want him to leave, but the overwhelming Shia majority want him to stay? Why? It is whatever Sistani says. 

Another eye opener is that Sistani like Jafari have warm feelings towards Iran.  People tend to forget that Sistani is Iranian and has studied in Iranian theological schools.  If anything, Iran along with Halliburton come out the winners here.   Meanwhile we are spending over $100,000 a minute on this mess. 

Again like I said, this whole Iraqi ordeal is just an utter quagmire. 





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Re: Condi Rice's trip to Iraq, proof positive of quagmire..
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2006, 10:54:20 AM »
aye love how the liberal and corporate media puts you future "mouthpieces" ;) a spinning...

believe me when aye say that the usa and britain should be putting pressure on iraqis to get their shite together...as the vacuum continues...wood is splintering...

so be glad that the concern is there...

shiites...kurds...and sunnis do not want jafari to continue...sunnis and kurds did not want him at all and some parts of the shi'a bloc didn't want him either...(in my opinion) he had an edge because of al sadr...if the shiites (sciri) kurds and sunnis splinter away from the group supporting jafari...al sadr has enough strength to be a major thorn in the side of a united government or worse he can disrupt the south...and he can say that he was right.

aye think a key player in this matter is sistani...he could keep the groups together...

in any case it is good that rice was pushing them to continue the political process...al sadr is a problem and perhaps sistani can speak loud enough to urge jafari to step down.

obviously the vacuum is sucking the life out of a unified iraq...

tick-tock.

mp ms,rvs;;omh///movr/ :) ;)



Perhaps many people can see Sistani as a key player, rightfully so.  Bush and his cronies recently sent Sistani a letter, Sistani's response? Didn't even open it. 

Yup.  According to Sistani's close aid, the reason why the Ayatollah didn't bother opening it was because of coalition forces meddling with Iraqi politics.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what he is referring to the West's attempt to push Jafaari out. 


Why do you think Condi Rice and Straw is over there trying to woo Sistani by using highly flattering language for Sistani in their speeches. 

For example, Straw has recently just been quoted as saying

"..without the remarkable spiritual guidance shown by his (Sistani) eminence, this country, for all the problems that it now faces, would not have in its hands the potential for a very much better future"     ::)

Is Sistani going to buy any of this brown nosing? Nope.


This also pretty much undermines notion that Shias are looking for Jafari to go.  Whatever Sistani says, it is gold.  In Shia theology, he wields the authority of a Marja, pretty much equivalent to the Pope for catholics (well not now, but during medieval era when Popes had more political sway). 

Again, whatever he says, Iraqi shias follow.  Don't buy it? Well there are ongoing protests and thousands are demonstrating on behalf of Jafaari for him to stay in power.

Albiet there may be a few who would want him to leave, but the overwhelming Shia majority want him to stay? Why? It is whatever Sistani says. 

Another eye opener is that Sistani like Jafari have warm feelings towards Iran.  People tend to forget that Sistani is Iranian and has studied in Iranian theological schools.  If anything, Iran along with Halliburton come out the winners here.   Meanwhile we are spending over $100,000 a minute on this mess. 

Again like I said, this whole Iraqi ordeal is just an utter quagmire. 


well said, wimpy, and it should be noted that our hands really are tied in the south of iraq by our current policy in Iran- we're walking a tightrope, and the people in charge really don't have the skills to deal with this (Condi, with all her Soviet knowledge and experience, is not the right person for this)

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Re: Condi Rice's trip to Iraq, proof positive of quagmire..
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2006, 11:11:43 AM »
this was a quagmire when hussein invaded quwait...

perhaps we should have left him to his own devices?

is that your solution? do nothing.

lets face it...the diplomacy thing was going well, right? ;)


if hussein was still on the loose some of you guys would be still naysaying...

even if all iraqis got together and formed a unified government and the fighting stopped...

you still would be complaining...

some of us have gotten used to the complaining...

do you really think it helps?

now...

some reality...let's hope that rice is a success...after all she is a diplomat...

Re: Condi Rice's trip to Iraq, proof positive of quagmire..
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2006, 11:28:14 AM »

if hussein was still on the loose some of you guys would be still naysaying...

even if all iraqis got together and formed a unified government and the fighting stopped...

you still would be complaining...

some of us have gotten used to the complaining...

do you really think it helps?


Even if Iraq was currently in a peaceful state right now, you're right: I would still be naysaying, because I don't believe the ends justify the means.  "Pre-emptive war" is b.s., and I'll stand by my opposition to it regardless of the ultimate outcome.