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Author Topic: W&L Job placement  (Read 9444 times)

yiplong

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Re: W&L Job placement - WTF???
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2006, 11:58:26 PM »
they are also ranked as top university in the world. 

Except that they aren't, even UIUC admits so: http://www.publications.uiuc.edu/info/rankings.html

Now who said they were the top in the world?  Maybe USNews for Civil Engineeing, but that's some ineresting exaggeation here, I can think of at least five better schools for engineering alone.

Please, what are you talking about? How does the fact that you can think of five better schools for engineering show that Illinois is not a 'top university'?
http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2005/ARWU2005TOP500list.htm
Illinois ranked 25th on this ranking, and ranked 19th by Times Higher Education Supplement for 200 Best Schools in the world.   
good luck finding washington and lee on the list. 
Don't mean to bash the school or anything, but nobody I talked to either in the East Coast, Midwest or Asia has ever heard of Washington and Lee, some have heard of ND, and many confuse BU with BC.  Of these schools, only Illinois has any real international reputation. 
I would assume a Japanese client be more likely to accept service from a lawyer from Illinois than Washington and Lee (everything else being equal). There is little surprise that  T14 schools almost always have a strong undergrad/graduate reputation. 
But of course, W&L is a very good school, the above is just my opinion on how the reputation of the whole university overall might impact the value of your law degree. 


what about the fact that Illinois' own rankings dont even put them in the t40 PUBLIC schools internationally?...

how you think illinois is better known than ND is rediculous...

if youre concerned about the layperson opinion, i wouldnt put much stock in illinois' decent (not top) reputation in engineering.  unless you have an engineer or engineering firm as a prospective client, they wont have a clue that illinois is in the t20 in engineering.  nor will they care...

you are an idiot if you dont think anyone on the east coast has heard of w&l.  and if youre speaking strictly from an anecdotal perspective of one moron you know then thats equally pointless.

To be sure, ND overall is less well known than Illinois and W&L has no reputation whatsoever in the Northeast.  No one I have talked to has ever heard of W&L, and to be sure, many of them are a lot better educated than you.  So next time, check your own credential before calling others 'morons', this might just make you look more stupid than you really are.  Even some practicing lawyers in NY that I have talked to (my uncle included) think W&L law school is some kind of TTT.

kingofspain

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Re: W&L Job placement - WTF???
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2006, 12:19:50 AM »
wow this thread is so testy.  For the current W+L students on this thread:  why, in your opinion, should I choose W+L over ND?

Lenny

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Re: W&L Job placement - WTF???
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2006, 12:39:48 AM »
Ok, this is absurd.  What's going on here is that two people, LitDoc and yiplong, are making totally baseless assertions with little to no justification.  LitDoc's assertions, while well stated, are just uninformed (save for by the Leiter rankings, which make research methodolody experts cringe).  Yiplong's assertions, both on this thread and others, lead me to the conculsion that he or she is totally unqualified to attend whichever institution he or she so chooses -- have fun missing the forest for the trees wherever you end up.

Now, for kingofspain, you should choose W&L over ND if and only if you like the atmosphere and feel of W&L more.  The job opportunties, on a national, broadly generalized level, are basically the same.  ND  does a bit better in some markets, W&L does better in others.  They both do about the same in the "random" markets.  I make these assertions having done 2 years of job search and summer associate experience at large firms, lest I be accused of baseless assertions.  So, holding job opportunity generally equivalent, the only thing left is feel.  Do with that what you will.

Fred Hits

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Re: W&L Job placement - WTF???
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2006, 12:40:33 AM »
personal pref or regional desire

philibusters

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Re: W&L Job placement - WTF???
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2006, 07:14:10 AM »
I am not sure yiplong is serious, on his own lsn page he has w&l ranked with a higher preference than ill.
2008 graduate of William and Mary Law School

LitDoc

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Re: W&L Job placement - WTF???
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2006, 12:06:02 PM »
thanks for noting i go to W&L- i leave that at the bottom of my profile for a reason, so people know where i am coming from- i don't know if it is your intent but i feel like you are only mentioning that to basicaly say 'ignore these guys'  -i try very hard to be fair when saying anything so maybe i am reading more into that then i should, but still..

I repeat what i said before that you offer no real reason for what you are saying.  I know you say you aren't 'slamming' W&L but I fail to see how you are doing anything but.  My impression is that you are basing your argument on the idea that w&l doesn't have everything for everyone.  I don't see how this is anything new.  I don't know of many if any schools that offer everything someone would want. Most every school has its tradeoffs. 

Now I'm trying to see what you are getting at and it seems to me that you are saying that for you personally, w&l does not offer what you want and to you is about as valuable as certain other schools because of those preferences.  If so, then thats fine.  I would have said last year that to me going to a school like villanova is more valuable then illinois because i wanted to be on the east coast.  Illinois is a midwest school just as w&l is an east coast school.  To each his own.  Thing is, that is not what it sounds like you say. 

You then argue that w&l is not as good as those other schools without much to show except your opinion.  You keep referring to this 'national reputation' but i have no idea where you are coming from.  Sure ND has a huge national rep but thats a big exception t othe general rule.  ND football is college football.  Are you saying that from the people you talk to in your region of the country w&l isn't nearly as national?  If so, I can honestly say people here dont think of either iowa or illinois as super steller institutions unless they are in the 'legal know' so to speak. 

Maybe this is a regional difference, but still you are arguing for a national rep, not a regional one.  Also you mention academia reputation.  W&L is a small liberal arts college- in fact the only such school with a graduate school.  So no, W&L does not have massive labs, does not conduct massive studies, or have D1 football teams.

So maybe you are just agreeing with what leiter says?  If so, ok, I'll assume you are making his arguments and i'll go hide in the woods somewhere (i think what he says is some of the stupidest 1 sided stuff but thats for another day and i would at least know why you are saying what you do).  But I really would like to know where your opinion is coming from.  The more you know and understand the more sense things make.  I'm trying to see what you are saying but like i've said, I don't yet see it.

I guess if you can't see what I'm saying, you can't see what I'm saying. I'm not convinced that that the problem in communication here is mine, though. IMHO, it is you who is offering nothing but opinion. I've offered valid reasons for why W&L is not as strong as some other schools -- and I've stated VERY CLEARLY that W&L is a great school based on certain criteria, and not as great based on other criteria. You seem to be reading past all that, though, being too eager to defend W&L's honor -- which, by the way, I haven't been tarnishing.
"There is no was." -- William Faulkner

University of Texas, Class of '09

Fred Hits

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Re: W&L Job placement - WTF???
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2006, 12:18:02 PM »
right so i offer up a couple possible things i think you might be saying and then ask if you could clarify whether i am right or going the right directino with some of them- you respond telling me im the one with a communication problem......ok

LitDoc

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Re: W&L Job placement - WTF???
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2006, 12:22:49 PM »
Ok, this is absurd.  What's going on here is that two people, LitDoc and yiplong, are making totally baseless assertions with little to no justification.  LitDoc's assertions, while well stated, are just uninformed (save for by the Leiter rankings, which make research methodolody experts cringe).  Yiplong's assertions, both on this thread and others, lead me to the conculsion that he or she is totally unqualified to attend whichever institution he or she so chooses -- have fun missing the forest for the trees wherever you end up.

Now, for kingofspain, you should choose W&L over ND if and only if you like the atmosphere and feel of W&L more.  The job opportunties, on a national, broadly generalized level, are basically the same.  ND  does a bit better in some markets, W&L does better in others.  They both do about the same in the "random" markets.  I make these assertions having done 2 years of job search and summer associate experience at large firms, lest I be accused of baseless assertions.  So, holding job opportunity generally equivalent, the only thing left is feel.  Do with that what you will.

Please don't lump me in with Yiplong. I agree that his/her arguments are irrelevant. (Not baseless -- irrelevant. You should learn the difference.) As for my own arguments, you seem to have the same problem as the other W&L defender -- you can't seem to see any reason or validity in what I'm saying, only because you're too caught up in defending W&L.

So far as I can remember, both of you have admitted that W&L is much more well known and marketable regionally. I have not disputed that at all -- on the contrary, I've agreed with it. My contention is only that based on certain criteria, including the "national" marketability of the degree, W&L is not as strong as some other schools, such as BU, ND, Illinois, etc. I even cited some evidence of that: 82% of W&L grads stay in the South and mid-Atlantic region. Of course, to some extent this is self-selecting -- these students go to this school because they WANT to stay in those regions. But compare this to, say, Illinois, where 21% of their alums are on the West Coast, and 29% are in the Northeast. That's HALF of Illinois' grads who are NOT in the Midwest. But you want to contend that Illinois is as much a regional school as W&L.

You can continue to look past my evidence and well-reasoned arguments all you want, in your fervor to defend W&L. I'll say it again: I think W&L is a great school, with a great regional rep and some great things to offer (small size, great S/F ratio, great teaching). But I just don't think it's as comparable to the schools on the upper end of the "mid-1st tier" as it is to the schools on the lower end of that range.

Oh, and trash Leiter all you want -- that's merely an attempt at "guilt by association" -- a logical fallacy that I won't buy into. And for you to say that faculty scholarship shouldn't matter to students is ridiculous. It shows how little you know about higher education.
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mirror

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Re: W&L Job placement - WTF???
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2006, 12:23:33 PM »
they are also ranked as top university in the world. 

Except that they aren't, even UIUC admits so: http://www.publications.uiuc.edu/info/rankings.html

Now who said they were the top in the world?  Maybe USNews for Civil Engineeing, but that's some ineresting exaggeation here, I can think of at least five better schools for engineering alone.

Please, what are you talking about? How does the fact that you can think of five better schools for engineering show that Illinois is not a 'top university'?
http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2005/ARWU2005TOP500list.htm
Illinois ranked 25th on this ranking, and ranked 19th by Times Higher Education Supplement for 200 Best Schools in the world.   
good luck finding washington and lee on the list. 
Don't mean to bash the school or anything, but nobody I talked to either in the East Coast, Midwest or Asia has ever heard of Washington and Lee, some have heard of ND, and many confuse BU with BC.  Of these schools, only Illinois has any real international reputation. 
I would assume a Japanese client be more likely to accept service from a lawyer from Illinois than Washington and Lee (everything else being equal). There is little surprise that  T14 schools almost always have a strong undergrad/graduate reputation. 
But of course, W&L is a very good school, the above is just my opinion on how the reputation of the whole university overall might impact the value of your law degree. 


what about the fact that Illinois' own rankings dont even put them in the t40 PUBLIC schools internationally?...

how you think illinois is better known than ND is rediculous...

if youre concerned about the layperson opinion, i wouldnt put much stock in illinois' decent (not top) reputation in engineering.  unless you have an engineer or engineering firm as a prospective client, they wont have a clue that illinois is in the t20 in engineering.  nor will they care...

you are an idiot if you dont think anyone on the east coast has heard of w&l.  and if youre speaking strictly from an anecdotal perspective of one moron you know then thats equally pointless.

To be sure, ND overall is less well known than Illinois and W&L has no reputation whatsoever in the Northeast.  No one I have talked to has ever heard of W&L, and to be sure, many of them are a lot better educated than you.  So next time, check your own credential before calling others 'morons', this might just make you look more stupid than you really are.  Even some practicing lawyers in NY that I have talked to (my uncle included) think W&L law school is some kind of TTT.

i dont need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows and i dont need a JD in hand to know that w&l is a good school.  its certainly possible that some lawyers in NY (there are idiots in all walks) dont know about w&l but that just shows their ignorance.  w&l's reputation in the legal field doesnt need my justification.

Fred Hits

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Re: W&L Job placement - WTF???
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2006, 12:27:05 PM »
wahoo thank you- finally you made a real point- i disagree with the point about the % being telling of what 'national' is but at least its something we can agree to disagree on--- besides that your argue nothing except trying to throw my cred under the bus (which honestly is what gets on my nerves more then anything about the school)