Law School Discussion

KURDS TO THE RESCUE: as mediators and US ally...

Julie Fern

  • *****
  • 25797
  • hillary clinton say "boo!"
    • View Profile
Re: KURDS as mediators and US ally...
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2006, 05:41:27 PM »
what, you want bluecoward to make sense or something?

Julie Fern

  • *****
  • 25797
  • hillary clinton say "boo!"
    • View Profile
Re: KURDS as mediators and US ally...
« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2006, 05:43:08 PM »
his specialty to ask utterly vague questions and then act like he so smart because no one else know what hell he even saying.

and he know male private part about declaration.

Julie Fern

  • *****
  • 25797
  • hillary clinton say "boo!"
    • View Profile
Re: KURDS as mediators and US ally...
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2006, 05:43:43 PM »
he putz.

Julie Fern

  • *****
  • 25797
  • hillary clinton say "boo!"
    • View Profile
Re: KURDS as mediators and US ally...
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2006, 05:44:51 PM »
and numbnuts.

Julie Fern

  • *****
  • 25797
  • hillary clinton say "boo!"
    • View Profile
Re: KURDS as mediators and US ally...
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2006, 05:45:36 PM »
and now, back to you in studio, biff.

! B L U E WAR R I O R..!

  • *****
  • 7267
  • "make a friend who was once a stranger" br.war.
    • View Profile
Re: KURDS as mediators and US ally...
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2006, 07:31:11 PM »
no matter how ya slice it...he still turdy separatist...your words not mine...
first u cursed...knot often for future?  8)
but:}

"that thing about being separatist:  you may not be able to get property settlement you want."

that thing about being separatist:  you may not be able to get property settlement you want.

ben franklin was a man who loved philly if aye am not mistaken...no?
how do you explain the declaration of independence.


what? you powder puffs can't explain... ;)

come on...give it a go...



aye don't see how ben franklin and the kurds have anything to do with one another in the discussion, although aye suppose aye may have missed something before.

franklin was a separatist just like buster proports kurds to be...even though the kurds have long history in their region: separatist?? hmm.


-don't mind fern buster he just didn't want anyone to interrupt him.


! B L U E WAR R I O R..!

  • *****
  • 7267
  • "make a friend who was once a stranger" br.war.
    • View Profile
Re: KURDS as mediators and US ally...
« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2006, 01:02:31 AM »
BOOK REVIEW
'The Kurds: A People in Search of Their Homeland'
Kevin McKiernan
St. Martin's Press: 390 pp., $27.95
 
 
 
Review by Alissa J. Rubin, Times Staff Writer


OVER the last two decades, about 20 new countries have been recognized by the United Nations and no doubt others are on the way. Of course, some of these — such as Bosnia or the Baltic states — were not entirely "new," having experienced some form of national recognition in an earlier era. By contrast, in the last 2,000 years, the Kurds have never had their own country. They are the largest ethnic group to have lived in permanent diaspora. Will the more than 30 million Kurds now living in a region larger than Texas, one that spreads from eastern Turkey, across northern Iraq and into Iran, succeed in obtaining their own nation?

Kevin McKiernan avoids a direct answer to that question in his new book, "The Kurds: A People in Search of Their Homeland." Indeed, notwithstanding its title, this book isn't a treatise on self-determination. Rather, it is a kind of personal travelogue, with both the strengths and weaknesses that genre entails. Its strength is McKiernan's knowledge of his subject — he's spent years as a journalist among the Kurds, writes perceptively of their culture and heritage, and offers captivating portraits of Kurds he has come to know. But the book lacks an analytic framework. It's frustrating to be given so much information about the Kurds' aspirations without analysis of how they might draw on their situation to make a different future. And that story is complicated because the issues differ for Kurds in the three countries where they have large populations.
 
Still, anyone who has an interest in this ancient corner of the world will find McKiernan's book engaging and informative. Readers will come away with this overriding message: Whether or not the Kurds succeed in forming a country, the drive toward nationhood dominates their life and culture today.

McKiernan recounts the day in April 2002 when Barham Salih, then the prime minister of what was the semiautonomous region of Kurdistan in northern Iraq, and now a key political player in Baghdad, noted gleefully that Newsweek used the word 'Kurdistan' in a headline. "The K word is finally out there in the U.S.," Salih said. "We are making progress.'"

The Kurds have long been recognized as a distinct people with their own language and a culture different from that of the Arabs to the south, the peoples of the Caucasus to the north and the Persians to the east. Centuries of persecution and a hard mountain life have isolated them.

Their struggles, especially in the last century, are movingly traced by McKiernan, a documentary filmmaker and photographer who has spent more than 15 years traveling through what he calls "the lands of the Kurds." Unlike many journalists who write after a brief foreign posting or covering a war, his fascination with his subject goes back 15 years, to when he joined a relief group bringing aid to Iraqi Kurds who fled Saddam Hussein and took refuge in squalid camps in Iran. It was the first of many trips in which he pushed, finagled and pleaded his way into areas off limits to most foreigners.

His reporting suggests that if any part of the Kurdish world could become fully independent, it is Iraqi Kurdistan. The Kurds in Iran are too poor and lack the central, political organization. The Kurds in Turkey, after decades of struggle, are beginning to be accepted as a minority with rights. This is due in no small part to Turkey's effort to join the European Union and thus its need to demonstrate tolerance to non-Turkic ethnic groups.

The book's virtue is its evenhandedness: Relentless interviewing leads him to portray the Kurds in measured terms, at once sympathetic but clear-eyed. They are persistent but also fighters, willing to kill for what they want. He describes the Iraqi Kurds' transformation from open and accommodating underdogs, willing to reveal themselves to journalists, into wary managers of the media, even attempting to cloister journalists in guesthouses far from the action and give them minders — tactics also used by Hussein, the Kurds' enemy.

In several final chapters, McKiernan offers a lucid narrative of how the fundamentalist Muslim group Ansar al-Islam, which the United States believed had ties to Al Qaeda, insinuated itself into Iraq's Kurdish population, endeavored to Islamize it, terrorized local Kurds and ultimately used the villages and towns they dominated to launch brazen attacks against the Kurdish government. It's a textbook example of the tactics used in fundamentalist takeovers of other remote outposts from Afghanistan to Chechnya.

The reporting on Ansar is made more compelling because it encompasses the story of a Kurd in whose life McKiernan became deeply involved. Karzan Mahmoud, a driver for then-Prime Minister Salih, was crippled when three Ansar-linked gunmen tried to assassinate Salih in 2002. Karzan took 23 bullets, and when doctors in Turkey were unable to relieve his pain or help him to walk normally, he sought McKiernan's help. The author underplays what must have been enormous effort to persuade Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston to treat Karzan free.

Usually when a reporter gets involved with his subject, we question his objectivity. But McKiernan never lets his passion get in the way of his reportage. But he understands the pathos of what he is writing about and makes us understand it too.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alissa J. Rubin is a Times foreign correspondent who has covered Iraq and the war extensively.

! B L U E WAR R I O R..!

  • *****
  • 7267
  • "make a friend who was once a stranger" br.war.
    • View Profile
Re: KURDS as mediators and US ally...
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2006, 01:25:32 AM »
There is no military solution to the Kurdish question 
 
4/19/2006   KurdishMedia.com - By Dr Hussein Tahiri 
The Kurdish question has gained momentum, both in regional and international arenas. Therefore, it begs the question for how long the states ruling over Kurdistan will continue to deny the Kurdish rights.

Over a century of suppression and attempts at elimination of the Kurds, both physically and culturally, it has been proven that there is no military solution to the Kurdish question. If a military solution was a viable option, by now, the Kurds in Northern Kurdistan (Turkey) who demanded Kurdish cultural and political rights would be eliminated and other Kurds would have been Turkified. A similar scenario would have happened to the Kurds in Eastern Kurdistan (Iran). The Kurds in South Kurdistan (Iraq) would have been physically eliminated by successive Iraqi governments and the Kurds in Western Kurdistan (Syria) would have been Arabised.

However, as we have seen the opposite is true in all parts of Kurdistan. The Kurdish demands for cultural and political rights in North, East and West Kurdistan have grown stronger than ever and in the South the Kurds have been able to impose a Kurdish federal government on the new Iraqi government. The Kurdish self-consciousness has reached an unprecedented level in Kurdish history and there is no return to previous state of affairs. Thus, the only way forward is to try to find a political solution to the Kurdish question in all parts of Kurdistan.

Unfortunately, successive rulers of Kurdistan cannot understand this fact and they insist on a military solution to the Kurdish question. For the last several years the suppression of the Kurds in the West (Syria) has increased. More recently, the Turkish military used force to suppress Kurdish demonstrators which resulted in the killing of 16, several of whom were children under ten years old. The Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan who leads a doctrine of ‘Kemalist Islamism’ does not seem to see any other solution to the Kurdish question other than military force. During the Kurdish demonstrations in Diyarbekir and other Kurdish towns to legitimise their suppression, he called the demonstrators ‘the pawns of terrorism’ and said if necessary they would shoot at women and children. It seems that the rulers of Kurdistan are determined to solve the Kurdish issue through military means which has thus far proven unsuccessful. Is there any way out of this vicious circle?

Turkish, Persian and Arab intellectuals have a duty in trying to promote a peaceful solution to the Kurdish question as an alternative to military force; a duty that they have failed to fulfil so far. This duty falls on them not only as a responsibility that they have towards the Kurds as a nation who need to fulfil their national aspirations but as intellectuals who are responsible for the future of their own people.

Since Kurdistan was subdivided among Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria, the Kurds in different parts of Kurdistan have been subject to suppression and they have been deprived of their basic human rights. Kurdish demands for cultural and political rights have been met with oppression, persecution and genocide. Suppression of the Kurds has increased the human rights abuses in Kurdistan by the ruling states. Thousands of Kurds have been detained and imprisoned each year. Historically, all parts of Kurdistan have been treated as military camps. Kurds have been tortured, imprisoned, raped and executed by the military apparatus of the ruling states.

Alongside the Kurds even non-Kurdish population such as Turks, Persians and Arabs have suffered. In response to the Kurdish question the military organs of the states ruling over Kurdistan were empowered and given unlimited authority. These organs have become intolerant of any dissidents within these countries. They have suppressed their own people to maintain their grip on power and opposed democratisation of their societies. In this process, not only Kurds have suffered human rights abuses but the dominant nations in these countries as well.

Furthermore, the states ruling over Kurdistan have spent billions of dollars each year buying weapons to suppress the Kurds. Fighting between the ruling governments and Kurdish forces has cost thousands of lives on both sides. Alternatively, these governments could invest their financial and human resources to build and advance their own country rather than the suppression of the Kurds. These are issues that the Turkish, Persian and Arab intellectuals have failed to understand. A peaceful solution to the Kurdish question is not only to do with the Kurds but it is essential for progress, development and prosperity of the dominant nations.

In searching to find a solution to the Kurdish question one could talk about political boundaries, geography, geopolitics, geostrategic issues and many other ‘geos’ but in reality the Kurdish question is not as complex as some people try to portray. It is simply the question of a nation of over 40 million people with their own distinct history, language, and culture who have been suppressed for decades. As we enter the 21st century, ruling states continue to deny the Kurds their basic human rights. They still deny that a Kurdish nation with its own distinct identity exists, and do not consider granting the people any of their legitimate rights.

Therefore, decades of suppression, persecution, genocide and destruction of Kurdistan and denial of Kurdish identity have taught the Kurds that they can no longer live under suppression. They need to determine their own future so they can nurture their culture and plan their own future, free from persecution. Self-determination is the legitimate right of the Kurdish nation. Sooner or later there will be an independent Kurdish state.

The Kurdish nation has suffered for decades and deserves to live in peace and security. Kurds should be able to determine their social, political, economic and cultural rights. These rights have been recognized by the United Nations. Article 1:1 of the UN International Human Rights Covenants states, “All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.”

Why should there be more bloodshed? The states ruling over Kurdistan have to accept that a united independent Kurdistan is an inevitable fact. They should work with the Kurds to find a peaceful solution to the issue. Above all, having friendly neighbours are in their interests.

It also falls upon the Kurds (in fact it is long overdue) to form a coordinating body to promote understanding among various Kurdish political parties and organisations: a body that will promote social, political, economic and cultural development of Kurdish society; a body that would represent national aspirations of the Kurds and act as a voice for the Kurds in all parts of Kurdistan. Only then can the Kurds have a strong political voice to promote their cause on regional and international levels and push for a political and democratic solution to the Kurdish question.
 

Julie Fern

  • *****
  • 25797
  • hillary clinton say "boo!"
    • View Profile
Re: KURDS as mediators and US ally...
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2006, 02:16:38 PM »
no matter how ya slice it...he still turdy separatist...your words not mine...
first u cursed...knot often for future? 8)
but:}

"that thing about being separatist: you may not be able to get property settlement you want."

that thing about being separatist: you may not be able to get property settlement you want.

ben franklin was a man who loved philly if aye am not mistaken...no?
how do you explain the declaration of independence.


what? you powder puffs can't explain... ;)

come on...give it a go...



aye don't see how ben franklin and the kurds have anything to do with one another in the discussion, although aye suppose aye may have missed something before.

franklin was a separatist just like buster proports kurds to be...even though the kurds have long history in their region: separatist?? hmm.


-don't mind fern buster he just didn't want anyone to interrupt him.



franklin wanted to throw off colonial rule.  he never pretended to build nation with british while planning to separate.

you not 5% as smart as you seem to think, shithead.

Julie Fern

  • *****
  • 25797
  • hillary clinton say "boo!"
    • View Profile
Re: KURDS as mediators and US ally...
« Reply #59 on: April 23, 2006, 02:19:19 PM »
BOOK REVIEW
'The Kurds: A People in Search of Their Homeland'
Kevin McKiernan
St. Martin's Press: 390 pp., $27.95
 
 
 
Review by Alissa J. Rubin, Times Staff Writer


OVER the last two decades, about 20 new countries have been recognized by the United Nations and no doubt others are on the way. Of course, some of these — such as Bosnia or the Baltic states — were not entirely "new," having experienced some form of national recognition in an earlier era. By contrast, in the last 2,000 years, the Kurds have never had their own country. They are the largest ethnic group to have lived in permanent diaspora. Will the more than 30 million Kurds now living in a region larger than Texas, one that spreads from eastern Turkey, across northern Iraq and into Iran, succeed in obtaining their own nation?

Kevin McKiernan avoids a direct answer to that question in his new book, "The Kurds: A People in Search of Their Homeland." Indeed, notwithstanding its title, this book isn't a treatise on self-determination. Rather, it is a kind of personal travelogue, with both the strengths and weaknesses that genre entails. Its strength is McKiernan's knowledge of his subject — he's spent years as a journalist among the Kurds, writes perceptively of their culture and heritage, and offers captivating portraits of Kurds he has come to know. But the book lacks an analytic framework. It's frustrating to be given so much information about the Kurds' aspirations without analysis of how they might draw on their situation to make a different future. And that story is complicated because the issues differ for Kurds in the three countries where they have large populations.
 
Still, anyone who has an interest in this ancient corner of the world will find McKiernan's book engaging and informative. Readers will come away with this overriding message: Whether or not the Kurds succeed in forming a country, the drive toward nationhood dominates their life and culture today.

McKiernan recounts the day in April 2002 when Barham Salih, then the prime minister of what was the semiautonomous region of Kurdistan in northern Iraq, and now a key political player in Baghdad, noted gleefully that Newsweek used the word 'Kurdistan' in a headline. "The K word is finally out there in the U.S.," Salih said. "We are making progress.'"

The Kurds have long been recognized as a distinct people with their own language and a culture different from that of the Arabs to the south, the peoples of the Caucasus to the north and the Persians to the east. Centuries of persecution and a hard mountain life have isolated them.

Their struggles, especially in the last century, are movingly traced by McKiernan, a documentary filmmaker and photographer who has spent more than 15 years traveling through what he calls "the lands of the Kurds." Unlike many journalists who write after a brief foreign posting or covering a war, his fascination with his subject goes back 15 years, to when he joined a relief group bringing aid to Iraqi Kurds who fled Saddam Hussein and took refuge in squalid camps in Iran. It was the first of many trips in which he pushed, finagled and pleaded his way into areas off limits to most foreigners.

His reporting suggests that if any part of the Kurdish world could become fully independent, it is Iraqi Kurdistan. The Kurds in Iran are too poor and lack the central, political organization. The Kurds in Turkey, after decades of struggle, are beginning to be accepted as a minority with rights. This is due in no small part to Turkey's effort to join the European Union and thus its need to demonstrate tolerance to non-Turkic ethnic groups.

The book's virtue is its evenhandedness: Relentless interviewing leads him to portray the Kurds in measured terms, at once sympathetic but clear-eyed. They are persistent but also fighters, willing to kill for what they want. He describes the Iraqi Kurds' transformation from open and accommodating underdogs, willing to reveal themselves to journalists, into wary managers of the media, even attempting to cloister journalists in guesthouses far from the action and give them minders — tactics also used by Hussein, the Kurds' enemy.

In several final chapters, McKiernan offers a lucid narrative of how the fundamentalist Muslim group Ansar al-Islam, which the United States believed had ties to Al Qaeda, insinuated itself into Iraq's Kurdish population, endeavored to Islamize it, terrorized local Kurds and ultimately used the villages and towns they dominated to launch brazen attacks against the Kurdish government. It's a textbook example of the tactics used in fundamentalist takeovers of other remote outposts from Afghanistan to Chechnya.

The reporting on Ansar is made more compelling because it encompasses the story of a Kurd in whose life McKiernan became deeply involved. Karzan Mahmoud, a driver for then-Prime Minister Salih, was crippled when three Ansar-linked gunmen tried to assassinate Salih in 2002. Karzan took 23 bullets, and when doctors in Turkey were unable to relieve his pain or help him to walk normally, he sought McKiernan's help. The author underplays what must have been enormous effort to persuade Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston to treat Karzan free.

Usually when a reporter gets involved with his subject, we question his objectivity. But McKiernan never lets his passion get in the way of his reportage. But he understands the pathos of what he is writing about and makes us understand it too.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alissa J. Rubin is a Times foreign correspondent who has covered Iraq and the war extensively.

kurdistan = new jersey of middle east.