Law School Discussion

anyone here thinks LSAT is easy?

jorge

Re: anyone here thinks LSAT is easy?
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2006, 06:59:12 PM »
It's self-selected. Is it surprising that people with 170+ (note: not me) are posting in the "Anyone here think the LSAT is easy" thread?

Re: anyone here thinks LSAT is easy?
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2006, 07:17:22 PM »
wow, it sounds like alot of people here are getting 175+. then I guess half of the people on this board will end up in Harvard and Yale, right?
That's just funny.


A score of 175+ does not asssure a spot in a top LS. And there are less than 20 people posting in this thread; it is very possible that every single one of the posters claiming to have gotten 175+ is not lying since about 1500 people get scores so high and there is a very high chance of them posting here on the basis of this board being one of the most popular LS discussion boards.


pass36

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Re: anyone here thinks LSAT is easy?
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2006, 08:23:22 PM »
Practice reading, practice taking arguments apart and putting them back together, etc. You've done that at a high level for years. You've taught people how to do that. That counts. No wonder it was okay for you.

I hate to ruin your good impression of me Red, but actually for most of the last ten years I've been drinking beer and playing golf.  That's part of why I want to go back to school. ;)


redemption

Re: anyone here thinks LSAT is easy?
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2006, 08:25:10 PM »
Practice reading, practice taking arguments apart and putting them back together, etc. You've done that at a high level for years. You've taught people how to do that. That counts. No wonder it was okay for you.

I hate to ruin your good impression of me Red, but actually for most of the last ten years I've been drinking beer and playing golf.  That's part of why I want to go back to school. ;)

Good beer, though, right?

pass36

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Re: anyone here thinks LSAT is easy?
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2006, 08:31:14 PM »
Practice reading, practice taking arguments apart and putting them back together, etc. You've done that at a high level for years. You've taught people how to do that. That counts. No wonder it was okay for you.

I hate to ruin your good impression of me Red, but actually for most of the last ten years I've been drinking beer and playing golf.  That's part of why I want to go back to school. ;)

Good beer, though, right?

Was there ever a question? 

You know me too well. I think I am going to start rooting for NYU to give you a full ride just so you might go there and crack me up all the time!

Miss P

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Re: anyone here thinks LSAT is easy?
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2006, 08:34:53 PM »
Let me be as clear as I can about your question: there is no relationship between (so-called innate) intelligence and performance on the LSAT, assuming away learning disabilities and lack of fluency in English.

I think we are misunderstanding each other because I don't think I asked any questions to which this would form a response!  As I said earlier, I pretty much agree with you on this: I don't believe the LSAT says much, if anything, about one's intelligence.  (As an aside, this also contradicts something you say below -- that is, if you are willing to include me among the high scorers.)

My beef is with this statement:

The LSAT isn't tough enough to distinguish between who's smart and who isn't. I just paid attention to what I was reading and bubbling.

I don't know whether an instrument's ability to measure intelligence can be judged by how difficult it is.  If the LSAT were tougher, I don't think it would measure intelligence any more than it does now; if it were easier, I don't think it would measure intelligence any less.  It just measures something else.  (You have pointed to some of the things it measures: linguistic and cultural fluency, concentration, etc.)

But remember, the LSAT is tough -- very tough -- for a lot of smart people who try hard. It does assess some qualities beyond paying attention while one is reading and bubbling.  Your insistence that anyone can ace it if she works hard enough is an insult to people who work hard and don't ace it. 

pass36

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Re: anyone here thinks LSAT is easy?
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2006, 08:42:37 PM »
More than anything the LSAT measures how well you take standardized tests.  People who take standardized tests well (SAT, GRE, LSAT, etc) get defined (probably incorrectly) as smart or intelligent.  It is really pretty circular when you get right down to it and has a lot of self-fulfilling prophecy elements.

I agree that anybody without a learning disability could eventually learn to score 170+.  Eventually might be after 30 hours a week of study for 18 months, but they could get there if they wanted it badly enough and were able to devote enough time to it.

 

Re: anyone here thinks LSAT is easy?
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2006, 08:47:04 PM »
I have to agree with Miss P here. If it were so freaking easy, 170+ wouldn't be the 99th percentile. Tens of thousands of test takers out there probably studied their butts off to get an average score and would argue that no matter how long they studied, they would not be able to break a 170.  I think some people are just naturally good test takers, while others struggle with test anxiety, concentration issues, and other problems that can't easily be overcome by intense studying. 

redemption

Re: anyone here thinks LSAT is easy?
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2006, 08:55:19 PM »
I have to agree with Miss P here. If it were so freaking easy, 170+ wouldn't be the 99th percentile. Tens of thousands of test takers out there probably studied their butts off to get an average score and would argue that no matter how long they studied, they would not be able to break a 170.  I think some people are just naturally good test takers, while others struggle with test anxiety, concentration issues, and other problems that can't easily be overcome by intense studying. 

Gee - that's simply not true if you mean the current raw score equivalent, rather than the scaled score itself.

"Naturally good test-takers" may make people feel good about haviing scored well, or conversely about not having scored well, but it's just not about that at all.

Why has frankness so little value in our discourse?

Once again:

The LSAT measures reading proficiency, familiarity with simple arguments, and some logic games. Each an every one of these things is learnable wth practice. Every person who is not learning disabled or severely hampered by test anxiety could practice, learn and perform very well on the LSAT.

That people do not score well reflects, to a large extent on inadequate study too late in the game. Period.

pass36

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Re: anyone here thinks LSAT is easy?
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2006, 08:57:08 PM »
Not to pick straws, but 170+ is the 98th percentile, not the 99th.  Not that I'm bitter or anything. :D

I think that people on this board are probably HIGHLY self-selected for above average amounts of study/prep time, so I wouldn't draw many conclusions from our experiences.  As I think back to the kids in the same room when I took the test, I am guessing not many of them put much time into preparing.

Test anxiety, concentration issues and other problems are all overcomeable (is that a word?).  Again, it might take five years of therapy, but that is a time issue, not a denial of the possibility.  

It is just not the case that some people are born with gold intellects, some silver and others copper, wood or mud.  Taking tests comes easier to some people, sure, but I refuse to admit that there is any non-learning disabled person who does not have the potential to become a skilled test taker.  People are events who develop into all sorts of strange and beautiful things over their lives, not things who can be categorized, labelled and fixed in neat little alpha plus and epsilon minus categories.