Law School Discussion

Are law schools too friendly to minorities?

Are law schools too friendly to minorities?
« on: March 26, 2006, 06:51:57 PM »
For a long time, going through my college career, I knew that getting into law school would be tough. Perhaps even tougher than I expected. What I didn't expect was how big a role political correctness and outreach to certain ethnic groups was going to have in the law school admissions. I assumed that this type of stuff would be outmoded by the time I reached post-college age. On this, I was incorrect.

When I finally went to the law school forum in Boston, it finally dawned on me. In a handful of small board rooms next to the main convention room in which all the schools were presenting, were these videos being played. "Latinos in the Law" "African-Americans in the Law" and the like were playing for all to see. I don't mind that these videos were made; what bugged me was that they were being played in a law school forum.

It gave me the impression that the main purpose of law schools is to recruit minorities. That non-minority applicants like me were of secondary importance. Initially, I tried to suppress my frustration. But, the more I thought about it, the more I came to the conclusion that this kind of nonsense played a role in derailing white applicants with better numbers than me, but whose background in all likelihood weighed against them.

The law schools have made their agenda very clear. Students who are as uninformed about this as I initially was should do their best to prepare for it.

dbgirl

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Re: Are law schools too friendly to minorities?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2006, 06:54:42 PM »
If law schools' primary purpose is to recruit minorities, they are doing a horrible job.
The six black guys at my 1200 person school would probably agree.

moonpie

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Re: Are law schools too friendly to minorities?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2006, 07:03:08 PM »
This should be in the AA board, but i'll take the bait anyway.

Were it not for AA, it's conceivable that I would be planning my attendance to a T14 somewhere. That's a bit suspect, though, given the small number of minority applicants involved in the process, so the odds that any one individual non-URM is excluded through AA is pretty small. But people like to justify why they didn't get in places. There's an argument, which makes sense to me, that sometimes AA shoehorns people into schools they don't do well at and it actually retards the development of minority lawyer communities while ensuring there are some elite lawyers in the smaller community.

But the notion that this 'huge role' political correctness (is that what encouraging minority enrollment in law school is?) is a bit silly. You complain that in the rooms off to the side of the main room have videos that speak to individual communities who are applying to lying school. Then complain that the main purpose is for minority recruitment, when, in fact, these videos are being played unobtrusively in a side room for people who were interested. Clearly, the feelings of us white applicants are so hurt that we should stop playing instructional videos in side rooms off of the main conventional hall of a law school forum. From your post, it is possible that you're URM, in which case it's doubly silly since you can just mark yourself as caucasian on your admissions sheets.

When I want to feel special, I go to the scottish games, I wear my kilt and berate the english, not go around sniffling at the lack of "Scottish-Americans in the Law" videos. If you want to feel uniquely valuable, find a law school that will give you a scholarship and schmooze you.

Re: Are law schools too friendly to minorities?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2006, 07:25:05 PM »
It could be argued that law is such a traditionally white profession, that prospective white lawyers looking in take it for granted that law school is the place for them while minority candidates look at it as a field that is not for them--as a field in which they have no place.  One might say efforts such as you observe are necessary just to contradict that misconception.

2Lacoste

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Re: Are law schools too friendly to minorities?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2006, 07:29:38 PM »
Q:  Are law schools too friendly to minorities?
A:  Yes.  I hate them for their extremely generous act of recruiting me so actively and enticing me with the prospect of over $100 K in debt.  Bastards.

[Sarcasm.]

Re: Are law schools too friendly to minorities?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2006, 07:34:53 PM »
minority candidates look at it as a field that is not for them--as a field in which they have no place.  One might say efforts such as you observe are necessary just to contradict that misconception.

I don't think its anybody's job to correct a misconception- least of all the schools. If would-be applicants have the wrong notion about the profession then the onus is on them to find out that they're incorrect.

What will people our age do years from now when they are in charge of the process? Will we also try to over-compensate for the advantages that our parents and grandparents had?

JamesD

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Re: Are law schools too friendly to minorities?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2006, 07:50:49 PM »
"Were it not for AA, it's conceivable that I would be planning my attendance to a T14 somewhere."

This is a logical fallacy.  I'm sure you see why:  "X did not deserve admission"; "I have stronger numbers than X"; "Therefore, had X not been admitted, I would have been admitted in his stead".  As you said, this reasoning is certainly suspect.  I hear it used constantly.

Very few minorities practice law.  It has, historically, been a practice to which few minorities could gain access.  This is why law schools are so hellbent on recruiting minorities. 

Is this fair?  Maybe yes, maybe no.  All I can say is this:  I'm poor; I'm the first person in my family to go to college; I'm a minority.  I feel that my rich, white counterparts have had so many advantages; many of these advantages are never recognized.  The rich kids at Duke or Yale or Virginia... they went to great schools; they had all of the advantages the wealth affords.  Do I think it is 'unfair' that I was accepted at UVA even though I have an LSAT score that is well below the median?  No.  Look at fairness more comprehensively... not just fairness in this one incident... but fairness overall.. throughout life.

Let me piss some people off here: I met lots of black kids at Duke who were from very affluent families.  They were so ridiculous--- they wanted to talk about being 'oppressed'.  They went to great high schools.  They drove BMW's and Land Rovers.  They were privileged.  Do I think these people deserved any boost from AA?  No.  Why?  Because they're rich.  And rich people don't need any additional help.  Don't talk to me about 'the struggle' when you're some rich black girl from Long Island, your family income is 200k; you've spent your summers since 16 traveling the world; your family owns a yacht; etc.  Don't act like you've been a victim; like you've been 'oppressed by the man'... thats just bull...











faultytowers

Re: Are law schools too friendly to minorities?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2006, 08:08:39 PM »
Let me piss some people off here: I met lots of black kids at Duke who were from very affluent families.  They were so ridiculous--- they wanted to talk about being 'oppressed'.  They went to great high schools.  They drove BMW's and Land Rovers.  They were privileged.  Do I think these people deserved any boost from AA?  No.  Why?  Because they're rich.  And rich people don't need any additional help.  Don't talk to me about 'the struggle' when you're some rich black girl from Long Island, your family income is 200k; you've spent your summers since 16 traveling the world; your family owns a yacht; etc.  Don't act like you've been a victim; like you've been 'oppressed by the man'... thats just bull...

I'm gonna have to agree with this sentiment. I have met far too many extremely affluent minorities who are essentially abusing the spirit of the AA program. That's not to say financially well-off minorities don't face serious discrimination in day-to-day life, but I think we really must examine the purpose of AA. It's about helping people to overcome the obstacles that keep them out of certain schools, positions, neighborhoods, etc.

If I were in charge, I would start heavily shifting my admission practices towards financially-burdened individuals, regardless of race. The most serious divide in this country today is financial, and people on the bottom are having one hell of a time climbing to the top. Of course, finances are a lot easier to manipulate, and a lot more difficult to verify. But frankly there is so much manipulation of the AA system as it is, I don't see how it couldn't be at least a slight improvement. Or perhaps a combination of finances and race - wouldn't that be at least a little better of an indicator of who really has faced the hardships worthy of that LSAT/GPA bump?












Re: Are law schools too friendly to minorities?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2006, 08:13:16 PM »
If law schools' primary purpose is to recruit minorities, they are doing a horrible job.
The six black guys at my 1200 person school would probably agree.


What school do you go to?

Re: Are law schools too friendly to minorities?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2006, 08:29:57 PM »
Is this fair?  Maybe yes, maybe no.  All I can say is this:  I'm poor; I'm the first person in my family to go to college; I'm a minority.  I feel that my rich, white counterparts have had so many advantages; many of these advantages are never recognized.  The rich kids at Duke or Yale or Virginia... they went to great schools; they had all of the advantages the wealth affords.  Do I think it is 'unfair' that I was accepted at UVA even though I have an LSAT score that is well below the median?  No.  Look at fairness more comprehensively... not just fairness in this one incident... but fairness overall.. throughout life.

You most certainly earned your seat at UVA and I congratulate you.  You overcame a ton of adversity and earned an awesome GPA in college.  You and people like you most certainly deserve AA.  But, along with that, I think that the poor white kid (definitely not me), coming from a similar background should also receive some sort of boast.  It should be not only minority status, but socioeconomics as well.


Let me piss some people off here: I met lots of black kids at Duke who were from very affluent families.  They were so ridiculous--- they wanted to talk about being 'oppressed'.  They went to great high schools.  They drove BMW's and Land Rovers.  They were privileged.  Do I think these people deserved any boost from AA?  No.  Why?  Because they're rich.  And rich people don't need any additional help.  Don't talk to me about 'the struggle' when you're some rich black girl from Long Island, your family income is 200k; you've spent your summers since 16 traveling the world; your family owns a yacht; etc.  Don't act like you've been a victim; like you've been 'oppressed by the man'... thats just bull...


I totally agree with and it's not fair, they have received every privilege and an amazing education all of their lives (probably a much better than me, your everyday average white kid).  I mean the fact that Michael Jordan's children will receive AA when they apply to college/grad school is a bit absurd, as they have been LOADED all of their lives and gotten every chance to receive the best (and probably private) education that money could buy.